For nearly two decades, the original Kiss lineup was split in two, irreparably, it seemed. In the early Eighties, lead guitarist Ace Frehley and drummer Peter Criss exited the group under a cloud of drug problems and bad vibes, leaving bassist Gene Simmons and guitarist Paul Stanley to march on with a few different Kiss personnel configurations. Judging from all the venom spit in the press, it seemed like the four Kiss originals would never again get together on anything like amicable terms.

But in 1996, longtime Kiss fans learned to Never say Never as Ace, Peter, Gene and Paul got up on the same stage to perform a few songs on MTV's unplugged. This surprise reunion led to a record-breaking Kiss tour. From there, the four members of Kiss entered the recording studio together to record the first batch of all-new material by the original Kiss lineup since 1980. They call the album Psycho Circus, and declare themselves damn well pleased with the disc. "We wanted to create the vibe of Destroyer" says Gene Simmons. "We weren't interested in the music scene. We don't care whether this is perceived as a today record, a tomorrow record or a yesterday record. We don't want to be perceived as a part of anything. We simply wanted to make a great Kiss record." The album is just the tip of a marketing iceberg that includes the ongoing Psycho Circus comic book and action figure toys, as well as a Kiss movie, Kiss car and the first 3-D rock tour in history. The makeup is back on and  with Criss and Frehley drug and booze free - Kiss are stripped down to fighting weight. "I'm down to 170 pounds," Ace confirms. "I can't believe it. When I was drinking I was up to 185. Alcohol puts a lot of weight on you. But that's all over now. For this new tour, I'll be wearing my Destroyer costume, with the black V and tubular belt and tubes on the shoulders. I tried on my old Destroyer costume from 20 years ago and it actually fit. The seamstress couldn't believe it!" An exuberant mood prevailed when the three axe-wielding members of Kiss - Frehley, Stanley and Simmons - got together for a chat with Guitar World. Fair warning : the following interview is not politically correct or members of the Moral Majority. Anything goes once you enter the Psycho Circus. So lock up your moms and hide the Viagra. These almost-fifty adolescents are out to prove that they can still rock and roll all night and party (drug-free of course) every day.

Guitar world : How does life on the road in the Nineties differ from the way life on the road was back in Seventies ? Gene Simmons : Not at all. I fuck my brains out. I fuck everything that moves. And if it doesn't move, we work something out. Paul Stanley : It's exactly the same. Everything's available, if you want it. The stakes are much higher. For anybody to deny the new, lethal slant that's been put on promiscuity or impulsive sex is either full of false bravado or insane. So that's certainly put a damper on things. But nothing's changed in the sense of what's available. Fame is power. And power is sexy. And sexy leads to sex. Simmons : Although the society of groupies has ceased to be what it once was. They don't have self-respect anymore. Groupies used to be proud to be groupies. There was a magazine called Star just for groupies and it was a pride thing. Girls smelled like girls, walked like girls, talked like girls. And they were great : tight, lifted, separated, all facing in my general direction. Ace Frehley : I remember in the Seventies, we had a roomful of groupies every night : 25 girls. Now for me, it's just not the same. I'm married with an 18-year old daughter. After a show, I can't wait to get back to my hotel room and play with my computer.
GW : A lot of the songs on Psycho Circus, like "I Pledge Allegiance to the State of Rock and Roll" and "You Wanted the Best," come off as celebrations of Kiss itself. It's almost a rock equivalent of Sinatra doing "My Way". Simmons : Interesting. I've never heard it put that way.  I get it. Yeah, I think you're right. Stanley : As long as it's not like Sinatra doing "September Song," which means you're at the end of your career. But I'm damn proud to be where we are today. Twenty and some years after we started, we did the biggest grossing tour of '96 - 97. Playing to two million people a year after not being together for 18 years - yeah, that's something to sing about. And that's what we wanted to celebrate on the album.
GW : So the intent really was to say, "We did it our way." Simmons : The intent is simply to be quintessential kiss. And quintessential is at least as big as gymnasium. It's one of those big words. The idea, basically, is to stop playing games for once and for all. We've played our share of games in the past. Disco came along. We wanted a disco hit, so we got one. Whatever was happening we wanted a slice of it. but ultimately it comes down to we're either Kiss or we're not. So let's just do what we do best and the rest of it be damned. And when we go out there on the Psycho Circus tour , we're gonna raise the stakes yet again. Singlehandedly. The millenium is coming and all that cornball stuff. And we're gonna do the first 3D tour ever. The first one is gonna be at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles on Halloween. But in every city on the tour, you're gonna enter the arena or stadium where we're playing and get a pair of 3D shades. You put'em on and we're gonna fuckin take you a-w-a-y. Like nothing you've ever seen or heard before. It's gonna be interactive. You're gonna be able to point and things are gonna pop. There'll be things over your head, there'll be things under your seat. You want know where it's all gonna go, what's it gonna be.
GW : What is all this costing you guys ? Simmons : Millions. But we're rich ! We've been rich a long time. I am not saying this to be arrogant, but because I'm blessed. We are all privileged, and this is the least we can do for our fans. If you have enough maoney to throw a good party, why not throw the biggest party anyone has ever seen ? Costs millions ? So what. We got millions. The CD itself is a 3D CD too. Every page of the booklet is gonna have some holographic, 3D effect. When you take the CD and you put it into your computer you get instant access to our web site. No having to wait and type "com this, don't com that." I hate that. I wanna find the guy who invented words like "font" and "mouse." We have to find this prick so I can beat the shit out of him.
GW : Who came up with the 3D idea ? Simmons : Actually, our manager, Doc McGhee. He'd always wanted to do something 3D in the past with other bands he's worked with. But it never fit with anybody else. As soon as we heard the 3D idea we went , "Oh, that's Kiss." We started talking about the Psycho Circus idea and I went nuts. I immediately called up Todd McFarlaine and said, "You can have your own comic book. We'll put it together ourselves. I want action toys, too. Let's go where no band has gone before." There's gonna be a Kiss movie, too. We're doing it with New Line Cinema. Looks like we'll start shooting in October. The director will be Adam Rifkin, the writer of Mouse Hunt and Small Soldiers. He's a major Kiss fan. Knows everything.
GW : Do you see any parallels between Kiss and the Spice Girls ? Stanley : Only that I'd like to fuck them all. Hey, baby Spice, Scary Spice, Posh Spice, Sporty Spice - jump on Old Spice ! Do I see a parallel ? I know what the Spice Girls are doing. It's a formula and it works great. Music aside, it's the Beatles. It's any band where you have four or five members and each member appeals to a different audience. The group gets big, but each member has their own following, which only makes the band that much bigger. Sure, I understand the Spice Girls. We were in England when they first got big over there. And they had success written all over them.
Simmons : I would rather listen to the Spice Girls any day of the week than to some band dressed like lumberjacks trying to convince me that they're suicidal and depressed when they're young, healthy, rich, famous and getting all the pussy they want. I'm sorry, I don't buy that. For me, the Spice Girls have got much more credibility than any band trying to pretend they believe the world is all doomy and glum. Bullshit, America is enjoying its greatest financial success ever. There are no world wars. We're closing in on some major diseases. It's getting better and better.
GW : Rock took itself very seriously during the grunge era. But now that's all over, and some people seem to crave entertainment : packaging and marketing. Rock also took itself very seriously during the late Sixties hippie era. But by the early Seventies, when Kiss came along, hippiedom had died out, and people were just looking for a bit of flash and fun. Do you feel like the current moment in Rock is kind of like when Kiss started ? Simmons : We were very anti-hippie. And I still am. It was the same thing (as grunge) really : privileged white kids deciding that mom and dad's money is no good and they wanna dress down with ripped jeans and the whole thing. Which is fine. Wear anything you want, but you gotta get a fucking job. Hippies didn't have jobs, so I hated them. The manifesto of hippiedom basically was to be a schlump. The whole hippie thing was turn on, tune in, drop out. Really ? Who's gonna collect the garbage ? And drugs ? That was the most lunatic behaviour. Timothy Leary winds up being the godhead of this lunatic fringe. Anything that prevents your faculties from working is the enemy. I've yet to use chemicals or get drunk in my life. And I refuse to as a personal choice.
GW : Really ? Never ? Simmons : Everybody says they can't believe it. Which is sad, actually. Because the inference is, "Oh, everybody's gotten high and gotten drunk." How sad for our generation. A whole generation that's fucking numb. I mean, even having to go to sleep bothers me - all that wasted time when you're doing nothing ! Even when I take a shit I have a pad and pen with me. My phone and fax machine are right there. I hate just sitting around.
GW : So Kiss were never hippies ? Frehley : I used to hang out with a bunch of hippies in Poe Park in the bronx, where Edgar Allen Poe used to live. We'd drink beer and smoke pot. I was a hippie too, sort of. Some of my friends were dropping acid, which scared me. I went from the greaser stage, with my hair in a pompadour, to the mod  look. I was more mod than hippie. I didn't wear love beads and all that. Once I bought Fresh Cream and Jimi Hendrix's Are You Experienced ? I just completely fell in love with that sound and look. But that wasn't the hippie look. That was the mod, rock look.
GW : The swinging London look ? Frehley : Yeah. I was never a big Beatles fan, but I always loved the  Stones. I was always a rebel and the Stones were rebels, getting busted for drugs and all. I thought it was cool. One of the things that I regret is that a lot of kids in the Seventies thought it was cool that I was getting high all the time. I didn't hide it. I was always having car wrecks and throwing TV's out of windows. But what I regret is there's probably a couple of fans who used to emulate me. I used to sing about alcohol - I wrote "Cold Gin." And today I still feel bad about it.
GW : Speaking of the old days, I'm sure you guys remember playing tha Daisy. It'll probably surprise you to hear that I played there too.
Frehley : Get out of here, When ? GW : Around the same time as you guys. Stanley : No kidding ! You know, the funniest thing about that place was that the drinks - alcoholic drinks - were 35 cents. I would drink probably 10 or 15 seven and sevens : Seven-up with seagram 7 (whiskey). I don't know what they put in that stuff , because the only thing it made me do was pee a lot. It sure as hell wasn't getting me loaded.
You can't get a whole lot of alcohol for 35 cents. Frehley : One night at the Daisy, we were experimenting with makeup. I walked on stage with my whole face silver. Like the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz. I was half in the bag before I even got on the stage. We didn't have a lot of money back in those days. Peter covered his drums with mylar to make them look like they were made out of metal. I'd get down on my knees and do a guitar solo. And I remember looking at my reflection in the drums and laughing my ass off. Just saying, "How ridiculous is this? Four clowns." But the music was there. I still love "Deuce". It's my favorite Kiss song. We used to open up with that. The Daisy was where our makeup really evolved. And thank God it was somewhere out in the sticks. Amityville, if it was in Manhattan, I don't know if it would have made it. We might have gotten  booed off the stage.
GW : Did Kiss ever go through a drag phase ? I remember there was a photo of you outside the Daisy and your look was quite effeminate.
Stanley : Well, yeah, we were in fairly femme, glam kind of makeup. But we were never in drag. That was just a brief period, anyway. It didn't work for us. We looked like linebackers who'd stolen their wives' makeup. See, the New York scene at that time was really kind of unisexual. It was an outgrowth of glam and things that hed been going on in England. The New York scene, when we first started, was the New York Dolls and Wayne County, a transvestite who ultimately became a transsexual.
GW : Yeah, Jayne. Simmons : So our first attempt at makeup was kinda bad New York Dolls, which was also bad David Bowie and all that other stuff that had gone before. Our only real reference point was the New York Dolls, who we loved, conceptually.
Stanley : Gene and I went to see the Dolls at the Hotel Diplomat. For historians or anyone else out there, I must say that they sucked. Horribly. Simmons : As soon as they started playing, Paul and I looked at each another and said, "We're gonna kill'em. We 're gonna slice'em and dice'm." And we were fans ! Stanley : Even though they sucked musically, they were so undeniable in their image and delivery. They were just so strong. And we realized, "Maybe we can play better than them, but we can't beat them at their own game." The glam look wasn't very convincing on us. I mean my neck is about the size of one of those guys' waists. Simmons : These were little, skinny white boys at 5'2" and 5'4". On them, glam makeup looked cool. Meanwhile, I'm 6'2". Stanley : So we said, " let's go black and silver". Simmons : We said, "If we're gonna do this makeup thing, the only way we can do it is to be ourselves. Basically, that meant turning inwards and saying, "This is who I am. The makeup is an expression of whatever's going on underneath." We still put on our own makeup today, as we did then. None of us had training in makeup design or anything. We just started fooling around. What came out for me was an expression of the superhero/horror/science fiction sort of genre that I'd always admired and still do. Paul's was kind of the rock star, Eddie Cochran, I wanna-be-Elvis routine - magnified. And Ace had his space stuff and Peter his cat stuff. That's just what happend. Nobody sat down and said, "Okay, you're gonna be the weird guy, you're gonna be the cool guy".
Frehley : When Gene gets on stage, he's not faking it. He really becomes that monster. If you tried to talk to him when he's spitting that blood, he'd growl at you. He just really goes away. And He never has done drugs and doesn't drink. He just loves that character and gets into it completely. He told me, "Ace, when you weren't in the group and I had to wear the feminine makeup, I didn't feel comfartable in it. The monster is his thing. No one does it better.
GW : Did those platform shoes cause any injuries before you got used to them ? Frehley : I still have problems with the platform shoes. In the Seventies, even when I was sober I had problems with the platforms. Going up and down stairs is very difficult. In the Seventies I used to fall once every four or five shows. If I felt myself falling down I would kind of go into a roll or something. Paul and Gene were great about it. They'd come over and play to me and make it look like it was part of the act.
GW : Are there any occupational hazards that go with having to stick your tongue out all the time, Gene ? Simmons : The only bad part is that it's similar to being a girl who's known for having big tits. When a girl walks in with very large tits, that's all guys ever talk about. In the same way, I'm known as the guy with the really long tongue. When I meet girls socially or otherwise - even in the most innocent social situation - they'll say, "Can you stick out your tongue?" That's all they wanna see. They're not interested in the rest of me. Just the tongue. But it's not really a hazard. It's more a blessing. In the same way, girls with big tits should realize that having big tits is a blessing.
GW : It's a well documented fact that you often had sex with groupies when you were still in your stage makeup. But did you ever have sex with someone who was wearing Kiss makeup ? Simmons : Oh, sure. Not with the guys in the band ! (laughs) But with girls, sure. Everybody enjoys fantasy, you know. But I 'll tell you the most bizarre thing - if I can. Now, we'd seen girls with Kiss tattoos before. But there was one who had my face tattooed on her inner thighs in such a way that the open mouth was, well, in the most obvious place you could imagine : where the phrase, "Gene, go fuck yourself" was very apropos. It was a strange experience, I'll tell you that. Because you sort of wanted to look. ut then you thought of all the pain she must have gone through to get all those...pardon the expression...pricks as the tattoos were being done.
GW : Joe Perry once said he regretted doing so much dope in the Seventies because he wasn't up for the sex half the time. is that what's helped Gene and Paul stay off drugs all these years ? Stanley : Absolutely. Sex ? Bring it on. And I wanna be totally conscious. It always baffled me that everyone would say "Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll" at a certain point in the Seventies. I was saying, "You keep the drugs, I just want the sex." I remember once I was getting into bed with somebody and she said, "Do you want a quaalude?" And I said, "Why? I want to remember this tomorrow." I mean, sex is not a spectator sport. You shouldn't be trying to remember it. It should always be so good, or so bad, that you can't get it out of your mind. I wanna remember everyone. And it's not impossible. I feel badly for Joe. But I'm smiling.
GW : Were any of the songs on Psycho Circus written specifically for the comic book or any of the other outside stuff ? Stanley : No. But as soon as we knew Psycho Circus would be the title of the album, I wrote the song Psycho Circus to be the opening track on the album and the opening song for the live show. I like idea of writing a song that introduces an album with a vibe and sets the tone for everything to come. I tried to do that with "Detroit Rock City" and a few other songs. But nothing was written with the comic book in mind. You gotta start with a great album, not with the idea that it's a detachable comic book or you can blow it up and it becomes a hat. It all comes down to music. Everything else is icing on the cake.
GW : How long did it take to make the album ? Stanley : Recording took about three months. Writing took quite a while longer. It took me a while to get started. That's usually how it is. I'll start writing and come up with things I feel aren't right. And then there'll be a song that really captures what the whole album should be like. And that was "Psycho Circus". Once I had that, I had a blueprint. Then Gene came in with his perspective on what the album should be and that was great too. We feed off each other. And we wanted a great ballad for Peter to sing, so Bob Ezrin and I wrote "I Finally Found My Way."
GW : How did Paul and Ace approach dividing the guitar work ? Stanley : I've always considered myself a rythm guitar player, but I'm not a half-bad lead guitar player. So on this album there were a few songs where it was just natural for me to play lead because I had a real vision of the song from ground up. "Psycho Circus" was like that. I also played lead guitar on "Raise Your Glasses" and one or two others. Frehley : Paul had done a guide solo that he thought was really good. And I thought so, too. I don't have any ego problems with Paul playing guitar. And he doesn't have any problems with me playing guitar. We're both good guitar players. And Paul's really improved a lot over the years as a lead guitarist. Even back in the "Destroyer" days, we were doing harmony leads on "Detroit Rock City". What's flattering to me is, a lot of times when Paul plays solos, his style is similar to mine. Stanley : In many ways, my playing and Ace's are both based in the same genre and the same heroes and influences. I don't think you'd confuse one of us with the other. And yet oour styles are both very compatible. Frehley : Paul really helped me with "Into the Void", a song that was originally rejected. Gene said "The riff doesn't grab me". But I thought it was a great, catchy guitar riff. I really had to fight to get that song on the album. We went into the studio and rehearsed it with Peter and everybody got involved. Paul helped me rearrange it a little, to open up the choruses. It was his idea just to hit a droning chord and then come in with that rythm part alter on. Whereas, originally, I was just repeating the rythm part. He didn't want any writer's credit for it, but he probably deserves five or ten percent writer's credit for adding the droning chord and helping me rearrange it. Paul also came up with that high guitar part that goes through the chorus, which I think is brilliant. When we work together as a team, we come up with the best stuff. It's one of the better songs on the album.
GW : "Within" is kind of psychedelic, with all those backwards guitars. Simmons : Actually, I wrote "Within" and a song called "Carnival of Souls" for the last studio album with Bruce Kulick and Eric Singer. Neither of those songs made it on that record. Although Carnival of Souls did wind up being the title of the album. Another song on Psycho Circus, "You wanted the Best", started out as a chorus idea I had in 1977, in Madison Wisconsin. It was originally called "Just Give Me Love" and was about life on the road : "You give me this, you give me that. That's not what I want. Just give me love." That became old hat for me. And all of a sudden "You Wanted the Best" turned into a dialog between the band members. Istarted reading our old interviews - how the four of us all talked about each other when Ace and Peter were out of the band. The nasty things we said. And I started taking some of those lines out of our interviews - "You're just a fallen star". "Don't tell me what to do." "Who do you think you are?" - and I put all that in the song. Because i remember when my favorite band, the Beatles, broke up, I was devastated to read some of the terrible things Lennon and McCartney said about each other. So "You Wanted the Best" is basically a homage to the fans. The verse lyrics are about our differences within the band. And the pre-chorus is the fans, who say, "Shut up, guys. We want you to be together. That's what the songs are about (quoting) "The fans wanted us to play. We hear and obey."
GW : Are you a Dr Who fan, by any chance ? Simmons : Sure. What makes you say that ? Very good deduction.
GW : Because that line, "We hear and obey" - isn't that what the Daleks used to say? (The Daleks were robotic villains in the British sci-fi TV series dr Who.) Simmons : You got it ! It's interesting that that show never really popped in America. Very successful comic books, though.
GW : Paul, I understand you worked with (song-writer) Holly Knight on a couple of tunes. Stanley : I took a few of my songs as far as I could, and then I was not at all opposed to bringing in people I really respect to help fully realize them. Holly and I go back more than 20 years. She's a great songwriter and an especially great lyricist. And Holly had recently moved back into town (L.A.). So she was immediately the one I thought of. Holly and I knocked out the lyrics and fine-tuned some of the melodies on "I Pledge Allegiance to the State of Rock and Roll," and we did the lyrics on "Raise Your Glasses". To me, no matter who you co-write with, it's your song. If it doesn't sound like your song, then you didn't do your job. I'm not opposed to co-writers, as long as everybody knows who is driving the car. My idea on songs like "Pledge Allegiance" and "Psycho Circus" was to write songs that were not only anthemic, but also very cinematic and big in scope, with tremendous depth and width. i wanted something that was very theatrical, visual and atmospheric.
GW : On top of everything else, there's gonna be a Kiss car, too ? Simmons : You bet. We're designing a 75 000 dollar Kiss car which is going to be sold commercially : 450 horsepower and a partridge in a fucking pear tree. You'll be able to sit in your car, plug your guitar right into the ashboard amplifier and play. The best. We're foolish enough to go where no band has gone before. I want it all. I want Kiss cola. I want my own country. The country of Kiss. I want my own religion : Kisstianity ! I like the sound of that. Hey, what's Christ got that I haven't got ?