Long before appearing in Nike commercials, posing for " Got Milk ?" ads, and inspiring WCW wrestlers, Gene Simmons starred in a motion picture with George Clooney. Before that, he and his band mates battled a phantom menace of their own - the phantom of the park - in a made - for TV movie. And before that even, Simmons, frontman Paul Stanley, guitarist Ace Frehley and drummer Peter Criss transformed KISS into one of the biggest rock and roll phenomenons the world has ever known. Now, with a business savvy slicker than a freeway oil spill, the bass playing behemoth is defying the odds yet again, taking KISS even higher. Lest you doubt the ever circulating stories of Simmons' business - minded side, here's another : Our recent interview was briefly put on hold when the proofs from KISS' forthcoming KISSTORY 2: Toys, Girls & Games Collectors Bible were delivered to Simmons' doorstep. As eager as a virgin on prom night, Simmons settled into an examination of the preliminary pages, but he didn't like what he saw - "They better do something, that's not going to fly..." He told the messenger despondently. When given an excuse for the problem, his response was blunt: "you are giving me the reasons, but I'm not asking why. It just needs to look like this (pointing at a proof he didn't disapprove of) It will ned to be redone." And with that, Gene Simmons had spoken. "You wanted the best...." begins KISS' age-old stage intro, and if the last quarter-century-plus has proven anything. It's that KISS do whatever it takes deliver the best. While the Collectors Bible is still a work in progress, Detroit Rock City , the motion picture, has wrapped, with its August 13 release right around the corner. We sat down with Simmons, the film's producer, and talked about the motion picture, KISS rumored farewell tour this fall, and more.

P: Detroit Rock City was originally supposed to be released in spring, why the delays ?
G: There are no delays, the movie was done in January. They edited it, and the first edit was pretty much approved. They sent me dailies, because i am the producer, dailies, for those who don't know, are video copies of the day's take, so you see the same take over and over again -and there wasn't much fixing up to do. Director (Adam Rifkin) did such a terrific job. There was a mid-April release date set, and before movies are released they test them. They take an audience that doesn't know what they are about to see and then they hand out cards-Tell us what you think, what's good, what's bad, so on, that way a movie company makes an assessment of how to market the film. It tested very well. So well, in fact, that they thought this should come after Austin Powers, after Star Wars (and) in the summer when big movies are released, as examples Independence Day, Godzilla and all the big ones. There's a trailer in front of Austin Powers. So the company, New Line Cinema, is so excited by this that they think they've got a hit, which is why it's positioned in August.
P: The band wasn't in this movie as much as in KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park, right ?
G: We're barely in it at all. We're in it as much as the wizard of Oz is in The Wizard of Oz - the whole movie is about the search for the wizard, the whole Detroit Rock City movie is about KISS, the world of KISS, and these fans and their hunger and desire to go see KISS in Detroit. having said that, we're barely in it.
P: So, it's about their quest to see KISS and what they go through to do that ?
G: I've always said, from the very beginning-as cornball as it sounds-that if there's a story to KISS, half of it is the band (and) clearly half of it, at least, are the fans. I think it's apropos that Detroit Rock City, the first movie we're really in controll of, is really more about the fans then it is about us.
P: As producer of the film, what are your responsibilities ?
G: A director is on the set telling the actor how to say the lines, where to go, how to light, do this, do that, then the director also gets involved in editing-I don't like this, move this over and so on. The director in the movie is what a producer does on a record. In other words, a record producer will tell the artist, "Don't sing it like this, sing it like that." A producer in a movie is completely different than a producer on a record. A producer in a movie is responsible for whatever has to be done, will get involved in rewrites with the writer....All the politics, the sort of day-to-day stuff of actually making sure it gets done. A producer is kind like a Foreign Ambassador-that person is not the president, but that person goes in and does all the politics of trying to make sure you don't go to war and it doesn't cost anybody anything. So it's very political. Sitting around and making sure the right people come on board as the actors. If there are any disputes getting in the middle of it. Sometimes it's negotiations, sometimes it's just patting people on the head and saying, "Great job ".
P: Then it's very much like the hand you have in KISS ?
G: Yes, except in KISS I actually have to get up onstage, write the songs...
P: You did a special concert at the end of the movie. Was that part of a full concert that you taped ?
That was done right outside of Toronto. We were playing the Skydrome, which is the stadium up there, and then we had a day off, and during our day off we did everything we had to do for the film. The art department did a terrific job of completely recreating the 1977 Love Gun stage, as much as they could. And we literally got into the same outfits, which was weired.
P: You still fit in them ?
G: It was snug, I'll say that ! They were snug because leather shrinks. And we're also bigger. When you're a kid you're a stick, and as you move on you get thicker. But we fit in fine.
P: So, the movie is a time-piece ?
G: It takes place in a kind of fantasy time area of anywhere from 77 to 79. Probably 77 was the year. It's about four KISS fans and their overwhelming desire to see their favorite band, KISS.
P: You've acted in movies before, Runaway, Trick or Treat ... how many others ?
G: About five, from 84' until about 87'...Wanted: Dead or Alive...I did a small movie with George Clooney called Red Surf (Simmons was also in Never Too Young To Die, and appeared on television programs Millenium, The Hitchhiker and Miami Vice).
P: Was producing something completely new to you ?
G: I'd been preparing for it. You can take tha passive point of view of waiting until somebody offers you a part, but I've been very lucky because people come to me all the time asking if I want to be a Klingon or the next James Bond villain - usually the bad guy. But I basically decided to roll up my sleeves and take a hand in producing as a way of controlling some material, and being able to tour.
P: Did you look to certain people for advice ?
G: It's like walking: You get up, you stumble, you get up again. You learn by your mistakes. Any other movie I work on is going to be a fifferent idea. It's like dates - you go out on a date with a girl and whatever it is you think you learned or haven't learned, it's going to be completely different when you meet somebody else because it's about people. Producing, ultimately, is about people more than it is about material. Initially it's about the material-it's got to be raw, it's got to work, the director has to like it and so on-but the producer is not going to direct it, edit it or even market it. He'll have a hand- "I think you should do this, don't do this, don't do that," and I am involved in the marketing-but ultimately other people wind up doing it. More than anything, it's about people and getting people to do the stuff. It's almost like a general who's on top of his white horse and you get all the glory, but you're not going to do any of the fighting.
P: You've got a reputation for being the guy who rules over KISS with an iron hand.
G: No - it's unfortunate people think in termes of black and white. Either you're a complete moron who's on heroin and in a band who doesn't know what the fuck is going on, or the other version is this idea that people have in their minds that I am a guy in a suit and tie who sits in an office and jots down numbers. It doesn't matter to me, actually. People call what we do the music business, but somehow they only think about the music and not about the business. And that's good if you're ready and willing to accept the end result, which is you're going to be broke and you're going to learn how to say, "Do you want fries with that?" pretty quickly. Because one day nobody will care, people will stop caring about what you do. Every band screams that the only thing they care about is music, but every band lies. Every band does want to get paid, and I don't know a band that does it for free. Do you? So, money is a good thing and people shouldn't be embarrassed about talking for it. Anything you do well, you should be paid well for, so if it makes me a good businessman, that's good, but I've made mistakes and so has everybody. But I'm one of those guys who crosses the streets, but only before I check out both sides to make sure there's no oncoming traffic. Some people just kind of go straight across, that's okay, they can be run over. You have to be willing to accept that possibility. P: Do you ever feel like you're misinterpreted by people ?
G: Oh, that doesn't matter. I mean, I am so blessed. This is the American dream. I'm the living example of it. I wasn't born here, and yet anything I've ever wanted to do...be in KISS, have the amazing juggernaut that KISS has become with the toys and the games-I mean, nobody touches us, and we're not dead like Elvis. We continue on and it keeps getting bigger. I wanted to manage other artists, I did-Liza Minelli, lots of others. I wanted to own my own record company, so I did. I wanted to act in movies, so I did. I want to produce movies, I do. You could do anything you God-damn want to do. And we can go to the moon, too. Somebody says, "I want to go the moon," you can. The only thing between "I wanna" and actually being able to do it is an awful lot of hard work. So the opportunity is there for everybody. but are you up for it ? Do you have the balls? Will you get up? Will you show up on time? And will you go through step, by step, by step of the boring, dust filled rooms of people who could care less about what you do. You just have to keep going on and on and on and never stop, because most of the time people will say no. You have to be thick skinned and be ready, willing and able to work hard. That means a staight mind. I'm crazy about the idea, I really support the idea, that all other bands should take heroin and drugs and die in the apex of their career. I want all other rock bands to die-get out of my way. get the fuck out of my way.
P: What do you think of the music scene today ?
G: It's turning around. I was actually a big fan of some of the music that the scene called grunge. I thought Nirvana was very credible. I've always liked the melvins, I thought that was an interesting band. Mazzy Star I thought was very interesting. Posies. Some of the Dickies stuff was very interesting. The problem was, everybody forgot that when you got up onstage, people want to see stars-that's why the stage is raised above. So when the people onstage look worse...They don't have to be good looking - you can be ugly like me - but you have to be interesting. You have to have star appeal. So that,s turning around slowly, it has to.
P: Do you think KISS had a lot to do with that by coming back when you did ?
G: No. I never pay attention to whatever that means because i don't see a lot of bands wearing make-up and running around spiting blood.
P: There's Marilyn Manson...
G: I think he is a very bright guy. We've spoken a number of tims, and I find him very bright and I'm a fan. I don't have any problem with anybody doing anything onstage as long as it's interesting. So, I tip my hat to him and one or two other bands for getting up onstage and trying to do something, instead of just standing there with a torn T-shirt and saying, "I'm just a pizza delivery boy, but I happen to have a guitar on my shoulder." Get the fuck off the stage or at least don't charge full price for the concert. Go to a run down hotel that doesn't cost as much as a ritzy place. We always take pride in taking new bands out on their first tour, and that includes AC/DC, Judas Priest, Iron maiden, Scorpions, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, Accept, Anthrax, Rush, Cheap trick...Tons of bands, almost any band you can think of that was out there and either made noise or is making noise, we took them out either on their first tour in Europe or in America. And that's because , at the core of it, we like new bands. And we'll b taking Jesse camp on his first tour in the fall.
P: It's rumored that this will be your farewell tour. Is that the case ?
G: Every time somebody has a preconceived notion about what we're going to do or not, it's always fascinating. Let me tell you the stuff that's going on: Right now there's a nike commercial with a very powerful and attractive man in it - Gene Simmons. Then the "got milk" campaign Ace, Peter, Paul, John and Ringo...No, I'm sorry (laughs) - Ace, Peter, Paul and Gene, drooling milk. But it's chocolate milk so that you cpould see it against our white pancake make-up. Then, I made a deal with WCW (World Championship Wrestling) and there's going to be a series of wrestlers. The first one is going to be called The Demon. It's going to pop on pay-per-view first. The back story, he's going to look like me, but he's clearly not me-he grew up worshipping KISS and this is what he wants to do as a homage. Later on, the rest of us are going to show up in various forms as characters in wrestling. That's only the first year. At the end of that cycle, all four will get together as The warriors of KISS and they'll be fighting like a super-fight with like the "Gentiles From Space" or some group of other wrestlers, probably in a big Pay-Per-View. Then the second year, it'll be Wild Child, Lady Demon and so on. Big girls, with big boobs, wearing KISS make-up,wrestling. Then the third year they're going to go out with each other and have little KISS kids...The world is there for the talking.
P: I presume you heard about Owen Hart - the wrestler who fell to his death during a Pay-Per-View event - how did that accident make you feel, seeing as you "fly" every night? A lot of people were quick to blame the World Wrestling Federation, saying they're going too far to entertain. What do you think ?
G: Boy, that's a tough one...Look at football or boxing - people are pounding each other all the time, anybody can die from a hit. There have been deaths in boxing...I'm sorry for anybody getting hurt, of course, especially if you have kids. but people think, "Yeah, that Gene's got the time of his life." They just don't have a clue that every time I go up there, it's scary as hell. I'm scared to death of heights. It's about control. I trust myself. I don't trust anybody else.
P: People don't understand the risk that's sometimes involved.
G: On the other hand, nobody cares. if I tug on your shirt sleeve and say "Did you know that what I do is dangerous?" They don't care.
P: What else is in the horizon for KISS ?
G: In August the KISS movie comes out. Also, I just finalized a deal for a KISS special that's going to pop on Fox. I also finalized a TV movie-of-the-week for the stopry of KISS - how four guys get together and put the band together. And i approved KISSTORY 2: Toys, Games and Girls Collectors Bible. I put together with two people in a small room and, like all things KISS, we do it ourselves. That'll be shipping shortly. Also I've sold an idea to CBS called Rock And Roll All Nite (a different movie-of-the-week), which is going to be a kind of a story about a guy and a girl who meet and it'll revolve around this tour that's coming up. And tons of other stuff, more than anybody could imagine.
P: What about Broadway, is that still in the works ?
G: Yes. I've been developing that for awhile, but the structure is always the important thing. oes the rocket have a launch pad? The weatherhas got to be right...Never launch before you check it out. I have been having dicussionswith everybody from Ken feld, who owns the circuses, to people who've done some Broadway shows, but it's all about the structure. That'll come...And more toys than you've ever seen. Here comes the "KISS my ass" toilet paper. Just got the prototype. I'm so happy to be in KISS because if I was in R.E.M. I'd fucking coughing dust-because you got your records, your tour, and good songs, I tip my hat to them - but then I'm fucking snoring because there's nothing going on. With KISS it's always fun.
P: Is the KISS toilet paper going to be two-ply, nice and soft, or is it going to hurt ?
G: I don't have a clue. I haven'twiped my ass yet. I have a feeling most people will buy these and never open them or send them as gifts. A get-well-card for a friend in the hospital, send them some fucking "KISS My Ass" toilet paper.
P: How do you fell about the whole KISS collctors craze ?
G: It's exploding  ! It's getting bigger and bigger. It'll be gi-normous soon, because we are going to be opening up our warehouses at some point and doing the auction of all time.
P: Do you expect the value of these newer items to ever be as high as the 70's memoriabilia ?
G: It's up to you - Of the people, for the people, by the people.
P: Does it ever astonish you when people pay so much for a KISS item ?
G: No. I mean, value is all perceived. A piece of rock comes out the ground, it's called a diamond, and people think it costs a lot. Why? Why is that rock instead rock? There are more precious metals than that. And why gold? Why? Because people decide. It has no use, gold. It's too soft as metal, you can't use it. t's purely decorative. So people decide that's valuable and that other thing over there in the corner, that's not.
P: Do you envision this as something that will help you develop a new generation of fans ?
G: Oh, it's already there. On the reunion tour in 96, we'd look out and see three generations-little 5-year-old kids and their dads in their 20s and their dads in their 40s and 50s. I'm finalizing negotiations on a KISS Psycho Circus cartoon show.
P: It's a wonder you have time to tour...
G: Well...And Paul Stanley's starring in the Phantom Of The Opera even as we speak, in Toronto. He killed them on the opening night, a standing ovation. We're going to be up there soon, because we've got to shoot a video for the soundtrack album. There's a new song that's going to come out that Paul probably sang better than any song he's ever sung. He really sang the bejesus out of it, and we'll be doing a video in Toronto for that ("Nothing Can Keep Me From You", co-written by stanley with Diane Warren).
P: What's on the soundtrack ?
G: Well, it's songs from that era, plus five KISS songs, plus a new version of Detroit Rock City, plus the Warren song, Manson doing a song (AC/DC's "Highway to hell"), Pantera and a few other bands.
P: What KISS songs are going to be on there ?
G: We gave them a list of about 10, and they'll pick five.
P: Any big premiere plans for this movie ?
G: Oh, yeah. As I said, I'm finalizing the Fox TV special-the hour which will be around the premiere.
P: A big gala ?
G: No, we're going to do it in a little club and nobody's ever going to come...Of course ! I can't say, though, it's too early.
P: Will there be another studio album ?
G: O, yeah. Live record and videos up the ass. really exciting stuff. I don't know if you've seen Second Coming, I'm really proud of that. It was done all in-house. Tommy Thayer put that together. Tommy was in Black N Blue, I produced two of their records and actually met Tommy after that and we started writing songs initially. This guy's a serious guy besides the guitar, he's got other stuff. Tommy's living proof that you can do anything. He started off working on the KISS conventions and then segued on to road manager and then he even did the opening titles for the movie, the title sequences.
P: How did the Universal consolidation affect KISS ? Do you see the label mergers as a bad thing for the industry ?
G: No, it's a good thing. There are far too many bands releasing albums, and record companies were basically taking the point of view of signing anything and everybody, and just throwing it out there and seeing if it sticks. I like the indie record scene because it should be like a farm team on a baseball team. It's really important for bands to figure out who and what they are, because there are so many bands-Spin Doctors, and tons of bands-Spin Doctors, and tons of bands-that put out a good record and then thet break up. Stone Temple Pilots, one or two albums and then"see ya, bye!" Even Guns N Roses, one or two albums and "Good-night". And I love that, see...I want all bands to get the fuck out of my way. Move out of the way. I love this idea of the self-destructive bands. They don't even wait for people to get sick of them, they just shoot themselves in the head. Fantastic ! I love it !
P: You didn't answer the question before...Is it going to be a farewell tour, or is it too premature to call it that at this point ?
G: Well, I don't want it do...I don't want KISS to ever end, if that's what you're asking. We haven't decided anything. We could decide to say, "You know what? To hell with the tour. We're quitting right now." Or we could decide, "No, we want to do it for 10 years...".