The best KISS inteview ever!!!
Goldmine issue 6, 1996. By Ken Sharp

"You wanted the best and you got it, the hottest band in the land ... KISS!" Those immortal words were loudly and proudly bellowed out immediately prior to KISS's impressive entrance at concerts, often accompanied by huge fiery flames that singed the ceilings of that lucky town's arena. Now the original lineup of KISSÄPaul Stanley, Gene Simmons, Ace Frehley and Peter CrissÄis back, adorned in kabuki makeup and wearing their classicLove Gun-era costumes.

A surprise appearance at this year's Grammy Awards in Los Angeles triumphantly signaled the return of KISS. This was followed in April with perhaps the wildest and most surreal press conference in recent memory, held appropriately enough on the USS Intrepid battleship in New York City. For many in the audience, which was comprised of a surprisingly unjaded press corps and an unruly and enthusiastic squadron of die-hard fans, it was the first time they'd seen KISS wearing makeup. In typically zany fashion, Frehley opened up the festivities by admitting that, "We look as silly as we did 15 years ago."

Humor aside, this reunion tour is no joke, this is serious business. The past several years have been banner years for the legion of dedicated KISS fans around the nation. KISStory, a massive and remarkably comprehensive history of the band weighing an impressive nine pounds, was self-published by the group. Officially sanctioned KISS conventions were held in Australia and America, where the band performed impromptu acoustic sets entertaining audiences with a host of seldom, if never before, played KISS gems, like "Mr. Speed," "Love Her All I Can," "All The Way" and "Room Service," among others. The Unplugged album and video, which featured cohorts Frehley and Criss returning, joining the festivities for a few numbers, was released.

In 1996, it only gets better and better with a flurry of KISS projects on tap, including You Wanted The Best And You Got It!, a new live compilation record commemorating the tour; a brand new studio album already completed, featuring the latter-day lineup of Bruce Kulick and Eric Singer; the relaunching of new and classic KISS memorabilia; two separate KISS fan magazines: KISSnation and The Official KISS World Tour 1996-1997 Magazine.

Finally, the band's much talked-about MonsterOf All Box Sets is looming large on the horizon. As for the reunion tour, KISS is planning a spectacle of mythic proportions, promising to make the group's over-the-top rock extravaganzas of the '70s look like a tame version of Barnum and Bailey Circus. As testimony to KISS's resurgence in popularity, the group's concert debut on June 28th at Detroit's huge outdoor Tiger Stadium sold out in a record-breaking 47 minutes. Talk about being hotter than ever!



Stanley Eisen (Paul) , Chaim Witz (Gene), Paul Frehley (Ace) and Peter Crisscoula (Peter) numbered among their influences such musical guides as the Beatles, the Who, the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, the Kinks, the Move, Humble Pie, Slade, the Byrds, Dave Clark Five, Jimi Hendrix and countless others.

Formed out of the ashes of Wicked Lester, KISS honed their musical chops at local clubs like the Daisy and Coventry, KISS's equivalent to the Cavern. Along with such long-forgotten New York City-based acts as Luger, the Brats, Isis, the Harlots Of 42nd Street and Street Punk, KISS, initially, was just another hard-working band that was a part of the city's then-burgeoning rock scene. What did set KISS apart from the rest of the pack was their vision and their unparalleled sense of commitment, dedication, braggadocio and single-minded confidence, all factors that inexorably propelled them into the ranks of superstardom and onto the pages of Marvel Comics.

It wasn't until one of KISS's self-promoted gigs at the Hotel Diplomat, located in a seedy section of New York City populated by prostitutes, drug addicts and freaks of all sizes and shapes, that the group attracted the attention of TV producer (Flipside) Bill Aucoin. Immediately recognizing KISS's potential and unforgettable image, Aucoin went out on a limb and confidently promised that he'd land the band a record deal in a few weeks. Soon thereafter, Aucoin made good on his promise by securing the group a record deal with then-fledgling label Casablanca Records, headed by the colorful Neil Bogart. In KISS's minds, there was no question that they'd make it, the only question was when.

Capitalizing on the semi-retirement of Alice Cooper, KISS smelled blood and went in for the kill. If one Alice Cooper could capture a nation, four Alice Coopers would slay the entire world. Sold-out concert tours, a string of platinum-selling records, two Marvel comic books, the feature film KISS Meet The Phantom and a slew of nifty KISS toys like plastic guitars, dolls, lunch boxes and colorform sets all helped turn KISS into a household word. Simultaneously, their powerfully original personas of the Star Child (Stanley), the Bat Lizard (Simmons), the Space Man (Frehley) and the Cat (Criss) joined the ranks of beloved superheroes like Spider Man, Batman and Superman.

KISS's place in rock history is assured. Next to the Beatles, KISS has amassed the most gold and platinum albums, no minor feat in itself. While there's not a musical virtuoso in the bunch, it can be argued that KISS is perhaps the '70s' most influential group, inspiring such disparate acts as Soundgarden, Garth Brooks, Lenny Kravitz and Hootie and the Blowfish.

Back in the '70s, it might not have been considered hip to proclaim your membership in the KISS Army. Today nothing could be cooler. And the recruits continue to enlist. Critics be damned, music acts come and go, KISS is a true rock and roll survivor. As Gene Simmons so eloquently exclaimed at the group's recent press conference announcing their reunion, "The magic is back!"

During rehearsals for the tour, Goldmine spoke with the members of KISS, who offered candid and disarmingly thoughtful answers on myriad topics, including their long-awaited reunion, past touring glories and their future plans.

Goldmine: How did the Unplugged show, with the reunion of the original band, happen? Gene Simmons: It started initially with Peter, who innocently enough called me at home when I was working days and nights on putting together the new studio records and the KISS conventions, an idea that hasn't really been done before by any band. We just wanted a one-of-a-kind event that combined sort of Star Trek meets Disneyland. We've got lots of ideas in the future about it.

Peter himself had appeared at fan conventions. His daughter started talking about the KISS thing because it had been growing and growing with a brand new generation who'd never seen us. He called and said, "I want to come down and bring my daughter, is that okay?" And I said, "Sure, absolutely."

Eric Singer said, "You invited Peter down but you didn't invite him to sing a song with us?" It didn't even dawn on me because Eric Singer is the drummer in KISS and Peter was the drummer in KISS. Out of respect to Eric, I just didn't want to think about it or fuel rumors. Eric said it was cool. Peter came down and we started playing around and it sounded terrific.

When we played two songs with Peter at the convention it was such a rush, for the fans, for myself and Paul. It was bizarre. Whatever problems we had in the past with Peter you just sort of forget about it You're just glad see each other. When we were coming to the East Coast we didn't want to insult Ace after Peter appeared at a convention on the West Coast. As it happens, they were both playing clubs together so they couldn't make it to the New York convention. But as the Unplugged MTV thing was coming up, the irony of it was the planets lined up and we all decided to do it.

And to Eric and Bruce's [Kulick] credit, both of them said, "This is terrific. Don't worry about us, this'll be great for the fans." It just happened naturally. After the Unplugged show it was a very bizarre time for us. It was kind of a realization on Paul and my part that, number one, there's definitely a chemistry that you just can't put a want ad out and find. The magic could have been gone. It's all about that sparkle. If it's there, it's there. If it's not, it's not. It's nothing you can buy in a grocery store on the top shelf marked for sale today. And the other elements is as people. Are you full of shit or are you not? Are your defense mechanisms working or not?

So what happened was we went to dinner a couple of times and just hung. It seemed obvious that the specter of the makeup tour was coming up. It was sort of possessing all of us at the same time. We were all getting the same fever at the same time. Before we could go forward there had to be a clearing of the air. Ace and Peter had to come clean. Whatever feelings I may have a human being, maybe a character flaw. I may be a workaholic, stubborn, hardnosed. But there's no question that I work my butt off for the band.

It was never a question of if Ace and Peter were good or bad guys. It was always a matter of substances, whether it was booze or drugs. And KISS have absolutely no tolerance for that kind of stuff. So they had to come clean. Before we could even talk about the future, how are your doing? How's your health? How's your mind? Have you looked in the mirror and been honest with yourself? We've all got character failings but with drugs and booze anything happens. They came clean, They said they fucked up and you can't blame anyone else. It's hard enough to get along with people straight, much less high. Playing Jekyll and Hyde, you may be able to have a civil conversation with Dr. Jekyll but forget Mr., Hyde. You just can't even get to first base. Then we had to see if there was dedication. The second time around is twice as hard as the first time. We have the biggest competition, ourselves 20 years ago.



How did the Unplugged show go for you?

Paul Stanley: I was very happy with the show. I thought it went great. I've probably listened to that record more in my car than anything else we've done. To hear those songs stripped down really gives me a chance to hear how good they are.

Peter Criss: It was a great night. It was like A Midsummer's Night Dream. It was really cool. I jammed with them in L.A. at the KISS convention. It was exciting to be back onstage with the boys, the family; that's what we call each other now. I grew up with these guys. I was 26 years old when I met these guys. And I think about 26 to what I am now and I think, holy shit!, the years I've known these guys. It was a great time because it was the four of us again. It was the shit, man. When I walked out and heard the crowd I got a fucking rush. I did all in my power not to break down in "Beth" and cry, I swear to God. I probably will on the opening date at Tiger Stadium, knowing me. I'm so emotional these days, but it's okay. I find I can really be myself these days and not hide it because I used to really freak out so much in the old days. It was such a rush to be onstage with Gene and Paul and Ace, fuck!

Ace Frehley: It was such a crazy night and so much excitement. I was pretty happy with how it went, considering we hadn't played together in 15 years.

It was nice the album got such amazing reviews. Entertainment Weekly gave it an A. Paul Stanley: When I see so many good reviews of something, I'm suspicious. But I thought it was a real great event and a great album. I'm real glad we did it.

Tell us about the origin of a few songs from the Unplugged record starting with "Coming Home." Paul Stanley: "Coming Home" was a natural song we found on the convention tour. It was a natural song to open us up. It gave us a chance to loosen up. It was an appropriate song. Lyrically, it worked. It felt good.

Paul, how did you come to co-write "Rock Bottom"? Paul Stanley: I had the song and I just heard Ace's piece and put the two together. Whether it was "Black Diamond" or "I Want You" or songs on my solo album too, I always like to take quiet parts and little intros and then hook them up to the song. They're kind of like prologues to the song.

Is it true that "Got To Choose" was influenced by soul singer Wilson Pickett?

Paul Stanley: Yeah. There's actually a song called "Ninety Nine And A Half Just Won't Do," and there was a band in the early '70s that never really made it. One of the guys in it was Mark Stein, who was the organ player in Vanilla Fudge. They were a big New York band and they had an international hit with a version of the Supremes "You Keep Me Hanging On." Mark had a band after Vanilla Fudge fell apart, called Boomerang. They did a version of that Wilson Pickett song and I heard it at Electric Lady one day and I don't remember anything about the song or arrangement. But there was just a chord progression that they were playing and in my own twisted memory became "Got To Choose."

You rescued "Sure Know Something" for the Unplugged show.

Paul Stanley: The truth of the matter is we tried it out and it felt good. "Sure Know Something" is a song in a stripped-down form that shines a lot more than it did on the Dynasty album.

I know that you and Gene don't like the Dynasty and Unmasked period because the songs were very power pop, but that won't negate the fact that there were great songs on those records.

Paul Stanley: You know, there's a lot of stuff there that I'm not crazy about but some of those songs I like a lot more in the form they originally had, what they were before they got on those albums. I prefer the way "Sure Know Something" came off when we played it live, just sonically.

You wrote the music for "World Without Heroes." Paul Stanley: It was originally called "Every Little Bit Of Your Heart." We changed the title once Bob Ezrin thought we should do a concept album. The music worked but lyrically it didn't fall in. It became kind of a group project. By group, I mean, Lou Reed, Ezrin, Gene. Lou came up with the "A World Without Heroes is like a world without sun."

How do you feel about The Elder album?

Paul Stanley: I go on record saying it's not a great KISS record but I think it's a really great record. It's a really good album but I don't think it's a really good KISS album.

How many days did the band rehearse for the Unplugged show?

Ace Frehley: We did five days at the big room at SIR Studios in New York. I honestly have to say that after we said our hellos and just put everything behind us in the past and started playing together again, the chemistry was still there. It felt very natural. "Beth" I had to practice a lot because I had never played the song in the studio. It was all orchestration. Paul knew it. That was the toughest song for me. I spent a lot of time working out parts with Paul, coordinating them. Originally I wanted to do "Shock Me" but to play that solo on an acoustic is almost impossible. So I went with an easier song and a simpler solo ("2000 Man").

Were you surprised to receive a call about the reunion? Ace Frehley: No, I thought sooner or later it would happen. I knew it would happen. I just didn't know when. After the Unplugged show, I had a feeling that something was going to come out of it. I just didn't know how soon, but I had a feeling that the door was open and eventually it was going to lead to what it did. Paul and Gene approached me and Peter. We started discussing it. It took awhile to iron out everything. It's happened naturally because me and Peter aren't fucked up anymore. We've been working out and we're health-conscious now. So me and Peter are more in sync with Paul and Gene a hundred percent better.

Every time I would meet people backstage the first thing they would ask was whether a reunion tour with KISS would happen. I'm sure that's the same thing Paul and Gene got. So I guess they figured they might as well get it over with [laughs]. But we're having so much fun doing it, who knows how long it will last? As long as we're having fun, we're gonna keep doing it.



Ace, it looks like you've lost a lot of weight.

Ace Frehley: Yeah. After years and years of drinking and getting bloated, I started working out and getting on a health kick. I cleaned my act up. I've been working out with a personal trainer and watching what I eat and not drinking. I feel great. I'm thinner now than I ever was. I was doing an interview for VH-1 and was standing next to my mannequin with the silver outfit on that I wore at the press conference. He said, "What's the difference between you now and then?" And I said, actually this costume's smaller than the one I wore [laughing ], than they originally made it for me. I'm thinner now than I was then. I'm below 160, believe it or not. I think when I wore the costume I weighed 170, 175.

Ace, I know that Paul and Gene both kept up with your musical career outside of KISS. Ace Frehley: Interesting. I mean, Gene keeps track of everything. He's like a walking computer. He knows more about what I've done since I left KISS than I do [laughs]. He knows everything I've ever played. Every album I've ever done. He's just that kind of guy. I didn't really pay too much attention to what KISS was doing after I left. I was really involved with my own agenda and was trying to put KISS behind me and try to move on. But this is something that's my destiny. It's something that the kids really wanted. No matter how many times I tried to say to myself I'm not gonna do a reunion and I'm going to stay true to myself and my own band, I just realized it was futile.

Was it fun to play with KISS at the convention in L.A.? Peter Criss: It's funny, I did see Paul and Gene a few times over the years, on a plane in Chicago, here or there. But I don't know, man, there was a look in Gene's eye when I stepped out onstage that I had not seen in years. It was just this gleam. I swear to God, it was just a look that I know. I know he hasn't had that look since he'd been with me and Ace. There's a look we have about each other. Only the four of us have the magic. Paul has changed immensely, he is so cool. His boy has done the world for him. Beautiful wife, beautiful kid. Great life, great family. I envy Paul, he's become a helluva man. We're pals again. I think he's very funny. I never knew how funny he was. We play a game on the doo-wop bands 'cause I love doo-wop music. I don't remember the artists but I know the songs. And I'll sing 'em and this guy will give me the artists. It blows my mind that Paul Stanley knows doo-wop.

How long after the Unplugged show were you contacted about the full-scale reunion? Peter Criss: The day that I stepped on that stage at the convention I got a real weird feeling. When I met Ace and we were on the Canadian tour, he asked, "How was that?" And I went, "Fuck, it was cool, Ace. You'd really dig it. I got a vibe." Next thing you know we did the Unplugged show and the next thing it was the holidays and George Sewitt, my manager, called me and said, "What do you think about KISS?" And I said, "Get the fuck outta here!" He said, "I'm serious, Peter, what do you think about it?" And I said, "No. I will not go through that again. I will not go through almost boot camp again with the grilling monster sergeant Gene." I just thought of the stress and I said no. But then it hit me and I said, 'Wait a minute.' And then I wanted to. We went through a lot of lawyers and a lot of shit, that's the name of the game. When everything was ironed out I got the call that it was a go. I fucking freaked out. I wanted to tell the world and I had to sit on this shit for months.

Paul, I read somewhere where you said you never were too crazy about the makeup and costumes era in KISS and that you felt the music mattered the most. Did you have cold feet about the reunion? Paul Stanley: That's a misstatement. I was crazy about what we did and very proud of what we did. My only thought was that it should never overshadow or overpower the fact that we're a band that writes great tunes. The idea of not either liking it or wishing we never did it couldn't be further from the truth.

Tell us about the background of "See You Tonight," a song that appears on both the Gene Simmons solo album and the new Unplugged record. Gene Simmons: That song was written way before KISS even got together. It was when I first started writing songs. I must have been 18 or 19 years old. It just sort of came up. People started asking for it. It's bizarre because it has so little to do with what the core of the band is but people ask for it and we do it.

"Mr. Make Believe" is another similarly Beatles-influenced song of yours. Gene Simmons: Same vibe. "Mr. Make Believe" was written while we were on tour in Detroit. I went into a local studio and wrote "Mr. Make Believe." I have all those demos. All that stuff is going to show up on the boxed set.

Peter and Ace have both said they're getting along with you and Gene better than ever. Can you sense a renewed chemistry? Paul Stanley: You have to remember that people's judgment and their perception of things when there's chemicals and alcohol involved is a bit distorted. So I think both Ace and Peter are much more able to see things clearly. Maybe that has a lot to do with their perception of things. The problem with drugs and alcohol in distorting things is they don't give a person a chance to see reality.

I don't know how much is different. Certainly I have more in common with somebody who's straight than somebody who's not. We've never been a band that spends a lot of time socializing. It's not the nature of this group. I don't think family spends a lot of time together. I think you can have your friends and you can have your band and the two don't necessarily have to be one and the same. You're friends with the people in the band but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're the people you want to spend all your time with, especially when you're spending a lot of time working together.

Gene has spoken of how there still is some tension. Do you feel a little good tension, like the Who and the Kinks had, helps you creatively? Paul Stanley: When people don't get together and play for 17 years there's obviously some reason. Once those things are resolved you go forward. I'm sure every once in a while something touches a nerve that might make someone wince, But no, everything's fine. If this wasn't fun and we weren't committed to it a hundred percent and enjoying it, we wouldn't be doing it.

Have you spoken about how the band's going to avoid the same problems that plagued you in the past? Gene Simmons: There are never any pitfalls that conversation can't mend if you're straight. That's the only rule. You have to be committed and straight.

Gene, you've admitted that you're not the greatest of pals even today, that there was a reasons Ace and Peter left. Gene Simmons: Differences in our personalities still exist. To be frank, I think Ace is still sort of dragging his feet. He's never really been able to physically get behind something, to really do it all the way. It's kind of dragging. But we're pushing and to his credit, he's going, "Yeah, you know what, I should get up and do this stuff. And that's good that you're pushing me."

With a group like the Who, you had Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey, two guys who hated each other, but that friction helped them creatively. Gene Simmons: God's honest truth is nobody hates anybody. Everybody is aware that the band is made up of good guys. Everybody's personalities are different. Paul and I are complete polar opposites in every way. But there's a core of respect that goes beyond. You and I can look at the rainbow of colors and I can say I like black and you can say you like red, but we're looking at the same rainbow. In the very same way, Ace and Peter are completely different but both of them are even way different than Paul and I. But therein lies the greatness of the band. When everybody is straight it works like a charm. The only enemy is when your soul gets possessed. When it's not you that's talking, when it's drugs and booze, it's the only enemy; the rest you can work out.

But I want to say that Peter, especially, twice as much as Ace, has been working his tail off. He's committed more than I've seen him, ever. They both do workouts. Everybody's working out. They're doing seven-day workouts in some instances. Then coming to rehearsals. It's been physically grueling. So what, who cares! When that first show hits we want to knock everybody's jaw for a loop. They're gonna go, "Wow! The legend is true." We're aware that to some people it's not just music but a slice of their life. They proved it to us. We put one show on sale at Tiger Stadium and that went clean in 47 minutes, and that's the record. That's almost 40,000 tickets out the door. So they are telling us, we've placed our trust in you, now you prove it to us. How can we take that for granted?

Where were you and what was it like when you first put the makeup and costumes back on? Ace Frehley: One Sunday afternoon, once we knew we were gonna do the Grammys, we all went over to Gene's house and said let's just try on the costumes and practice putting on the makeup again. We hadn't done that in such a long time. It's like riding a bike. Do you know how many times we put that stuff on? [laughs] It came pretty naturally, actually. I forgot what sequence I did certain things. I wasn't sure what order I put stuff on.

Paul Stanley: It was a bit bizarre. It was kind of like going through a door and then time traveling. It's very bizarre to see the band and to have it be so unchanged. What makes it even more odd is to look at everybody and go "Wow, we all look the same."

Gene Simmons: It's like when the guys get together to play poker. There was a lot of joking around. I was surprised at how good everyone looked. We were all looking at each other and going, "Wow, you look like you're in KISS!"

Peter Criss: Major emotional and major trippy. For a second I got freaked out and I thought that I was losing my mind and was caught up in a bad acid reversal. What can I say? It was like looking in the mirror after 17 years and seeing the same faces and it was frightening. When we walked out even the guys who've been around the band working for them, like Tommy Thayer and even the dressers who dressed us, the hairdressers, they fucking freaked! They did not look at us the same way when we walked in.



Take us through the procedure for putting the makeup on.

Paul Stanley: We use the same makeup from the old days. Stein's clown white is the base of it. I use the cheapest red lipstick you can find. For the black I use a Stein's grease stick. First you get your hair off your face. Then the first thing I do is put white all over my face and leave a space where the star is approximately. Then I powder the white. It kind of fixes it to your face. Then I draw the outline of a star. Then I draw it and any white that's still inside the border I take off with a Q-tip. Then I fill in the black and sharpen up the edges with a thin paint brush. Then I put black on the other eye, eyeliner. Then I do my eyebrow. Then I do mascara for my eyelashes. Otherwise they're white and the red on the lips.

Ace Frehley: The first thing I do is put on a moisturizer to seal my pores and protect my skin from all the junk. Then I take a pencil and outline the stars. Then I put white on and fill in everything other than the area where the silver is and leave enough space where the black line goes through the silver and the white. Then I put the silver on and then I connect the silver and the white with the black line which outlines the stars.

Did it take a while to perfect putting the makeup on again? Peter Criss: Oh, yeah. You want to hear something amazing? It was a bitch to put the makeup on again. I didn't know where to start. I forgot where the powder went with the friggin' grease with the damn silver. It was a nightmare. It took a long time. It still wasn't right. At the Grammys I was still shaky. As a matter of a fact, my hands shook when I was working on my points and my whiskers, that's how nervous I was. So was Paulie. He thought his makeup looked perfect and I thought it was blotched everywhere. But we went on and we saw it and went "Okay, we've got to do better and take more time with it." Because we're all perfectionists, that's the beauty about us. I took my time for the press conference. The Intrepid had to be the best time I put on my makeup in my whole career. Is that blowing your mind? The whole band said, "Peter, that's the best your makeup has looked in your whole career!" And I said, "Get out of here!" [laughs]. It took me longer to get it off because it was on so heavy. It takes about an hour to put it on.

Ace Frehley: One of the rap groups there came up to us and said something to us like, "Wow, you guys look just like KISS!" [laughs] I think they thought we were one of the KISS copy bands doing a goof. But most of the rockers there knew what was up.

Paul, for the Love Gun costumes you've brought back the black pendant you often wore during that period. Is that the original one? Paul Stanley: That's the original one. I got that in Greenwich Village in New York around Destroyer. It's like some sort of black stone.

As the Love Gun costume was your favorite, I guess it's good you didn't have to bring out the Dynasty outfits? Paul Stanley: If we had those Dynasty costumes, I think it would say at least to me that we still don't know where the hell we are.

Gene, for the "Rise To It" video you and Paul put on the makeup again. But you, especially, didn't look good, almost like an imposter. Gene Simmons: No, I didn't. We look better now because it's less weight, and training has something to do with it. Peter's two sizes smaller than when he was in the band. Amazing, actually. The makeup takes about 45 minutes to put on, an hour if you really want to take your time.



Gene, with the makeup on you are the most recognizable to people that aren't that familiar with the group. When you first took off the makeup you seemed quite a bit uncomfortable onstage.

Gene Simmons: That clearly hits the nail on the head. I took to the makeup like my second skin and when I had to shed it because it was time to evolve, I was lost. And it's bizarre. For most people, walking around in their real skin seems comfortable. I didn't really know who I was without makeup onstage. In a very bizarre way when I was walking around without makeup onstage, I was posing, although I didn't realize it at the time. In some of the photos and outfits, I look back now and I looked like my mother. You know, glitter tops and a very glam look. It was a very horrible time for me. I think for music in general what was a horrific time was when guys were trying to look pretty, like girls. And it's very dangerous.

Do you feel stronger and more powerful with the makeup on? Gene Simmons: Oh, without question. In the same way if a football player puts on a ballerina's tutu. It may look funny but in no way does he feel as strong as when he's got his fighting duds on. What you wear and how you dress definitely has something to do with how you feel. And it's no different than commandos and Indians wearing war paint. They used to put on war paint because it got them into it. The fiercer they looked, the fiercer they felt.

Paul Stanley: It doesn't change anything. I just go, "Wow, it's Paul Stanley!" When you look in the mirror and see the makeup you just go "Wow, it's KISS." And I'm a big fan of the band so when I see it, "hey, look at that, it's KISS."

Peter Criss: I can be the Cat, I can be this fucking superhero. It's too deep, it's too freaky. It's a deep thing between us, this makeup thing. It's not just a makeup thing, it's a character, it's a persona, it's the Cat. This is exciting. This is good. I'm gonna remember this. I'm gonna take my video camera. I'm not gonna get stoned and hang out in my room. I'm gonna enjoy this.

Peter, on KISS's first album, why did someone else do your makeup? Peter Criss: That's a great story. I was a sucker. There was a makeup artist there for the photo shoot. I'm the big softie so I said, "All right, you can do me." That's how it was. It was wrong but when he did it we left it. After that I never looked like that ever again. I didn't look like that before that.

Is it true that the photographer Joel Brodsky wanted to put balloons behind the band, thinking you were clowns? Peter Criss: Yeah, ridiculous. We've been through some weird shit!

Gene, is true that Sean Delaney put your makeup on for KISS's debut album? Gene Simmons: No. Sean was also somebody who was a user. There's a decade or two that Sean doesn't quite remember and if he does remember it's kind of warped. Sean was terrific. He was the first road manager. He was involved in all kinds of things, co-writing the comic book. And also things we would do onstage. He said, "You know that thing you guys do every once in a while, that swaying back and forth in time? Why don't you do it on cue, at a certain point in the song?" So he pointed out what we did and applied it. Neil Bogart was the one who said he wanted the drum riser to levitate. Bill Aucoin said, "One of you guys should be breathing fire. Which one of you guys doesn't want to do it?" And everybody raised their hand. It was a negative question and I forgot to raise my hand so I was stuck. The man who taught me to fire breathe, his name was Amaze-o.

If you look at Roy Wood's Wizzard's Brew album cover, you can see elements of the band's makeup in what he was wearing. Was the group influenced by that? Paul Stanley: It was just coincidental. Great minds think alike.

Gene Simmons: Not really, except actually it reminds me of Ace's makeup. There's no denying that Paul and I were certainly aware of Roy Wood through the early Move stuff. He's a terrific guy and very underrated. A terrific songwriter. We actually made it a point that he opened for us at the Michigan Palace when we headlined there. He had a bass player on skates, which was a brilliant idea. He came out as Roy Wood's Wizzard and the fans just ripped him to shreds and afterwards we came backstage and apologized. But what are you going to do?

Will the reunion tour be more enjoyable not worrying about being photographed without the makeup? Gene Simmons: Well, actually we're going to make it a point of staying true to the vibe. We're gonna take the point of view that this is a masquerade part and we're going to stay in character. There's nothing that ruins a masquerade party as much as a person walking around in jeans and a T-shirt. Not that you don't really know what people look like without the makeup. The mystery part of that is gone. But if you suspend belief, if you get into disbelief, it's that fantasy thing. When your girlfriend all of a sudden puts on an outfit and comes out with whips and a corset, of course you know what she looks like when she puts on her secretarial outfit. But it's fun. But if your break character, it ruins the fantasy. We're going to immerse ourselves in this and take it all the way.

KISS has been doing rehearsals for the tour for quite some time. Peter Criss: It's been a nightmare. I'm just about getting cool now about it. I had to relearn 17 years of stuff I had not played. My band was doing nothing but originals, a lot of alternative shit. I was doing no heavy metal. I had to reacquaint myself with Peter Criss. I had to sit and listen to fucking cassettes over and over, I had to watch old movies. It was like going back to camp. I realized that today I was working on my drum solo and Gene and I were sweating our asses off on this thing but we were working as a team. When we got done Ace was sitting there and he said, "You know, Peter, I'm fucking impressed. I'm excited. That was very hot." We're helping each other be the best we can be and better than we ever were. And I realize that I can reach that now.

Paul Stanley: We've been rehearsing for months. It's important that with everybody asking for 17 years to see this happen that they walk out of the show feeling it was worth the wait. I got Ace and Peter into a heavy duty workout regimen. Ace is doing really great. He's actually got muscles in his arms now. Actually the workout has increased about two hundred percent for me. I wanted to look like the guy on the pinball machine. I just switched trainers and got a guy who five days a week would kill me for money.

Did it take a lot to get used to wearing the costumes again? Paul Stanley: It's the boots that are the heaviest part of the costume. Adrenaline will do pretty amazing things.

Tell us about a typical rehearsal day. Ace Frehley: I'll wake up, go have breakfast. Go to the gym and work out. From the gym I usually go right to rehearsals or run a few errands, take care of some business, maybe do an interview or two. I usually get home around seven or eight. Have dinner and by that time I'm ready to crash.

Peter Criss: I'll give you my week. Monday I get up and go to the gym at 9:30 'til quarter to 11. Come home, shower, try to eat. I'm down to a hundred and fifty pounds but I'm solid. I look real slim and mean. So I do that and then I go to rehearsal at two and stay until around six. Come home, my therapist comes over. My left arm's been bugging me. Paul's got a bad knee. Hey, it happens. He works on Paul during the day and me at night. Tuesday, back at the gym, back at rehearsal, then I can come home. I'm probably in the best shape in my whole life. I've got so much energy. Same thing Wednesday. I go some days earlier to rehearsals and work out with Tommy Thayer on my rough points. Some songs, like "She," are giving me trouble, "Watching You" is giving me trouble, "Parasite" is giving me trouble, because I don't realize what a lunatic I was as a drummer [laughs]. My drumming was so freaky that even Gene said, "Eric Singer is a far better rock 'n' roll drummer." True, but I've got a style Gene said that no one has. Gene said it's this jazz sickness. These jazz things that I do fit into the rock things so sickly. And it always fit into KISS.

Peter, it seems the reunion means more than money to you, that is has an emotional significance too. Peter Criss: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I've always lived comfortable. I can live better than comfortable now. I've got a killer place overlooking the ocean. Yeah, man, you know what? I feel like I've regained my dignity, I feel like I've got pride again. I can wear "KISS" on my fucking leather because I'm the real fucking drummer. I was the first. God love Eric Carr. He took my seat and he died. And I say here's a guy who sat in my throne as long as me but he died, and I'm still living, man. Here's a chance to get back with my band. I can walk out again and sing "Beth" the way it should be sung. I feel like I restored myself in society. People are treating me with such respect.

What was it like doing "Beth" on the Unplugged show? Peter Criss: It was cool. My band was doing "Beth" acoustically so I had a flair for it, thank God. More than Ace did. Poor Ace walked into a cannon. He didn't know what hit him. He walked into this acoustic thing. You know, Ace is on 10 and he's like, "What is this?" Sitting with those guys and doing it shows how far they've progressed as musicians.

Did you enjoy trading off vocals on "Rock And Roll All Night"? Peter Criss: Oh, that was great. Think about that, I thought we were the Beatles [laughs].

The two songs you played with Eric Singer and Bruce Kulick worked very well.

Peter Criss: It was pretty cool. Again, it seemed like kids wanted more of the four. I love Eric Singer and God bless Bruce Kulick, but Jesus, I have to go back to that. What can you say, like when it comes to the Beatles and the Stones? I have to put us up there with those guys. Although I think the Beatles and the Stones are Gods, I think KISS is the American fucking shit. We're the biggest band in America. I don't know any other band who's bigger than us, really, in America who did what we did. I'm proud of that.

Tell us about the stage show. Gene Simmons: The boots are no lighter, they're 12 to 15 pounds apiece. The guitar is about 12 pounds. It starts with "Deuce" and works its way to what anybody wants to hear. It's gonna be 25 or more songs, with Ace's classic guitar solo and Peter's drum solo. I'll get up there and drool blood and, if I have to, deliver a baby. I'll be flying up to the light truss at eight feet a second. I am scared shitless. I am afraid of heights. There'll be the levitating drum set and platforms that hover above people's heads. And fireworks shows and 40-foot-high blow-ups of the band. It's time for spectacle. I hereby declare spectacle alive and well. In terms of songs, we're staying faithful to when Ace and Peter were in the band, that's the rule. Other than that, there are no rules. Any song can pop up.

Paul Stanley: The show really isn't the '77 show at all. What we wanted to do was look at the '77 show in a sense as a pinnacle. This is what we will build on but not copy. Sure, there are elements of it that are in this. But there are elements from other shows in the sense that there's bombs and the flying rig and the breaking of the guitars, Ace's smoking guitars and things like that. It's really the ultimate KISS show in the sense that we looked at the show which we thought was our best and said, "Top this." It's not really that show but elements of it taken a lot further.

Peter Criss: We got a set now. It's a dynamo set. We're gonna be playing for two hours. We've got 28 songs. The songs that I mentioned are ones that I jump in early at rehearsals to tighten up because I may have a section at the bridge, I may have the ending sloppy, I may have a roll sloppy and we're such perfectionists. God forbid, I've gotta get it right. We're doing "Firehouse," "Dr. Love," "Nothing To Lose," "Rock Bottom," "Black Diamond." Now and then we may do "Hard Luck Woman." "Let Me Go Rock And Roll." Oh we're doing the shit! I'm gonna sing "Nothing To Lose." I'll sing "Beth," which is a helluva fucking song to do. "Black Diamond," Jesus Christ, which closes the show. We're doing "Shout It Out Loud," that's my daughter's favorite. "She." We're even doing "Shock Me," with Ace; it's great. We're doing "2000 Man." We beefed it up, we rock and rolled it, so now it's really cool.

They tell me I'm a better drummer now than I was when I was with them so I must be doing something right. We got a beefier version of "New York Groove." That's why it's so hard. We're keeping everything to the T, like "100,000 Years," because we don't want to let the fans down. When they come they're gonna wanna hear that. It's a bitch to relearn it.

Ace Frehley: I'm gonna be singing five songs: "Shock Me," "Parasite," "2000 Man," "New York Groove." Me and Gene are gonna share "Cold Gin." He's gonna sing one verse and I'm gonna sing the other. We're probably gonna do "Parasite" together too. It looks like we're gonna do "Rock Bottom." Gibson's making me a double-neck because I wrote the beginning part on 12-string When it came down to putting a set together there wasn't a lot of a disagreement. It was pretty obvious that we should start off with "Deuce."

We're definitely doing "King Of The Nighttime World," "Strutter." It's great doing "Do You Love Me" and songs we haven't done in years. But we're playing it better. At the end I'm doing a new guitar part that I've never played, a picking part that Paul originally did on the studio version. Everything that we did as far as pyrotechnic-wise and stage-wise is going to be based around the old set but it's going to be bigger and better.

You've had to relearn old guitar solos? Ace Frehley: I have to memorize them. I have to sit down and really listen to them. I don't want to get up there and do the solos kind of half-assed. I think the kids want to hear the solos basically note for note. I have to really sit down and relearn the solos. I was listening to the guitar solo in "100,000 Years" and went, "Wow, I wrote this shit?!" I wouldn't write a solo like that today. It's pretty bizarre guitar work when I took it apart and deciphered it. I don't play licks like that anymore. I didn't have a problem playing them but as far as writing a solo like that, I wouldn't write a solo like this today if I was given the same exact song. I'd write something a little more melodic where that's a little more bizarre. I don't know where those licks came from.

"Strange Ways" is another amazing solo of yours. Ace Frehley: Well, that was a totally stoned-out spontaneous solo, with everything turned on 10. I just kind of closed my eyes and went in and did it in one take.

How long will the reunion tour last? Ace Frehley: God, I don't know, I'm gonna be gone for at least a good year. We play the States until August. Then we head over to Europe and do the Monsters Of Rock show and then continue on in Europe. Where we go from Europe God only knows!

Will the band be using classic instruments from those late '70s shows? Paul Stanley: I'm using lots and lots of the PS-10s, the PS-10 classic which is the original one. To commemorate the tour, the PS-10 classic Ibanez is gonna be available again. Besides being in stores where it sells out immediately and they're very hard to obtain, I'm making them available direct. What I wanted to do is make sure people could get them direct at a cheaper price and hopefully a lot quicker. This guitar is road-tested for 20 years. This guitar will be the same guitar I've been playing all along, made to my specs. It's not only been played by me but a lot of the top current guitar players. At this point I just want to make sure everybody can get it. I hear from hundreds of people that they can't get it or one came into a music store and it was gone that I'm just gonna take it into my own hands and make sure people can get it at a reasonable price.

Peter Criss: I play DW drums now but I believe I'll be playing Pearl drums on the tour. That's something the Monster handles.

Ace Frehley: I might be using a new prototype Gibson that they've been working on for me. It's a Cherry Sunburst Custom with a flametop. We're working on an Ace Frehley model right now. It'll probably be available to the public in six to eight months.

Gene, what type of bass will you be using on the tour? Gene Simmons: I'm going to be using my Punisher bass. You can order it by calling 1-609-PUNISHER. Each one is handmade. It comes in three colors: black, tobacco sunburst and natural wood, although the black is the most popular. Each one is signed and numbered by myself. Each one costs 1500 bucks. That means when you get it, it's set up and intonated. You also get a customized Gene Simmons PUNISHER case with a raised logo. The case is kind of roughed up leather. Inside only the PUNISHER fits in it.

Are there any KISS songs that you would refuse to play live? Peter Criss: Oh, yeah, absolutely. "I Was Made For Loving You" I would never do again. I hated that song. I don't know where we went on the disco shit. What else did I dislike? There's a few songs on the Dynasty album which were chintzy; we were really losing our edge, I think. The earlier shit would cut your fucking throat. We're really doing that early stuff now, that's KISS.

Paul Stanley: No. I mean there's very few songs that I have bad feelings about. We didn't do "I Was Made For Loving You" for years because we thought that it had connotations that we didn't want to be associated with. As it turned out, it's always been a show-stopper since we put it back in the show. Although we're not doing it on this tour for a couple of reasons, the truth of the matter is that's the song that they go apeshit for. Whatever our ideas for what's cool and not cool is not always reflected in the audience.

Are there any KISS songs which especially stand up in time? Gene Simmons: I always thought "Deuce" was real simple. It came real fast. I wrote it in 15 minutes. There were other songs that took much longer. "Goin' Blind" took six months. "Deuce" is Ace's favorite song. I basically got the idea for the tune by listening to the Stones' song "Bitch." I was just fascinated by the idea of a bass line, whether it's played on horns, guitar or bass, that can keep going through a song with very few variations. It's just an interesting design for a tune. "Domino" was actually my attempt at copying "Deuce."

Do you still get nervous playing live? Ace Frehley: No, I don't really get nervous anymore, I guess because I've been doing it for so long. Obviously, there will be some kind of adrenaline rush. I used to have stage fright years ago. I used to have a couple of drinks to calm down. But I don't feel the need anymore. It's probably because I'm more secure in who I am. I've done so many albums, I've been famous with KISS, I've had some success as a solo artist and now I'm back doing this again. Basically, all I have to do is do what I did 15 years ago [laughs].

It's funny, I was talking to Peter and I said, "We've got the easiest job in the world. All we have to do is recreate stuff we wrote and played 15 years ago." We're all in good shape, thank God, and we're all better musicians than we were back then anyway. We're going to be able to enjoy it more because we're a lot more aware of what's going on around us. Paul's more than a rhythm guitar player now. He can play lead now very well. Paul's gotten a lot better. His production skills have improved immensely and he's still an excellent songwriter. Anyway, the songs are second nature now that we've figured them out and practiced them for awhile. We can get off more on the audience, run around and have some fun.

One of the best Gene Simmons songs is "Larger Than Life." Gene Simmons: The irony is when the "KISS My Ass" tribute record was getting put together, that was the tune Alice In Chains wanted to do.

Peter, are you looking forward to playing countries you've never been to? Peter Criss: Yeah like Australia. We're talking Russia. Tokyo. It'll be nice to go back. China. Jesus Christ, everywhere, we're talkin' the world.

Would you like to do a new studio album with the original band? Peter Criss: I'd love to. Wouldn't that be cool? It's fun what we're putting out now. In fact, recently the Monster asked me do I have anything in the kitchen sink. And I do but I don't know if it's for them, but I'm gonna see what I got and bring it to them. I could visit Gene or Paul and write. Can you imagine me and Paulie writing a song? It'd be a first. And what a fucking album it just may be.

Paul Stanley: No plans. In my life I don't rule anything out. If 20 years ago somebody said I'd be going on tour with the original band in the same outfits, I'd say you're out of your mind!

Ace Frehley: If this thing goes on for a couple of years, I'm sure we'll probably do a studio album. I have a lot of tunes that I've written over the years that could conceivably work for a new KISS album.

Who did the stage announcements for Alive and Alive II? Gene Simmons: The original guy who did it on the "Alive" album was our road manager, Jr. Smalling. Then along the way, by the time ofAlive II, we had a guy by the name of Eddie Balandas who was one of our security guards, who did it.

What are the plans for reintroducing classic KISS memorabilia old and new? Gene Simmons: All of that is gonna come out slowly. We're gonna try not to deluge everybody with toys and games but we want to have toys back. I love it. I love toys and love collectibles. There's gonna be some new stuff and some old stuff.

Paul Stanley: We really have nothing carved in stone. We would like to and will put out cool things though we can't say for sure what yet. But the plan is sure, our fans have always loved that stuff and we should give it to them.

KISS was the most merchandised rock band in the world next to the Beatles. Did you enjoy that? Peter Criss: I didn't like it. I didn't like the dolls. I didn't think that had anything to do with rock. We started with leather and the anthems and all of a sudden that. I was really a rocker. I was totally obsessed with being a rock 'n' roller. I loved the Stones. And I just thought that was so fucking stupid, the dolls, lunchboxes. I looked down on it. But now[(laughing] I love it. I go, "Wow, a lunchbox, how cool!" Hey lookit, you can change. I was going through mine and I've come to this. It's part of life.

Paul Stanley: I thought it was great stuff. I had no problem with the stuff. My only question at one point became, "Is this eclipsing the band?" It had nothing to do whether or not I liked the stuff, it was just that there was so much of it and so much of a demand for it that in some ways it overshadowed the band.

Ace Frehley: At this point, I don't think there's anything that we can do that would bother me [laughs]. We're a traveling circus. I'm working on a KISS CD-ROM. I'd like to do that and maybe a KISS [computer] screen saver. I wouldn't have the time to program the whole thing and put it together but I'd like to be involved with it. Plus I think the band lends itself to put out a really cool video game where we're all superheroes and we all have different powers. Like a Nintendo thing. The sky's the limit now that we're back together again, as far as marketing is concerned.

Did you like the Dynasty costumes? Peter Criss: No. I thought they were too fuckin' Vegasy.

Was the Dynasty tour a happy time for you? Peter Criss: At that time I was unhappy. I don't know what was wrong with me. It could have been the damn coke. I was just really up for doing my own music. I was just up for getting away and getting off the merry-go round.

In the KISStory book there's a wacky photo of KISS dressed up like women. Peter Criss: I forgot about that. Paul got the idea, let's dress in drag. Paul went out and bought all the chick clothes, the bags and matching outfits, very, very tasteful, I should say [laughs]. We dressed up to surprise Bill Aucoin. I didn't think much about it, I just went along with it.

What did the band's original manager, Bill Aucoin, mean to KISS? Peter Criss: Bill Aucoin was like the Brian Epstein, really. Maybe that's weird. I think that's kind of cool, actually. Bill was a force. He was very bright. He just knew things. He was very cool, he was very suave. He dressed immaculate. He had a great way around people. Bill was my best man when I got married.


What are your recollections of when KISS posed for a photo, later turned into a poster, on the top of the Empire State Building?

Peter Criss: I got so drunk with Ace. We drank so much champagne and I was loaded on that shoot. I was feeling great, as we all do on champagne. Ace and I were loaded. We had a ball. I was hanging off the fucking edge of the damn thing [laughs]. Gene was having a heart attack about it.

Ace Frehley: I remember crawling through this elevator room to get to the edge of where we were gonna do the photo session. It was pretty bizarre seeing the motors for the elevators and the cables. I don't have a fear of heights. I thought it was cool. There was a kind of safety thing there. I don't think we were in any real danger.

Paul Stanley: We were all scared shitless. You could see one arm and one hand of each guy and the other hand was holding on for dear life. It's a pretty awesome span to be up there to look and see three states. We climbed the ladder in those boots. It was a pretty interesting time.

Gene Simmons: We were nuts! We would do anything you would imagine. Let's go on top of the Empire State Building and hang over the side. for a photo. That'll look cool. Let's go?

Would you do it now? Gene Simmons: It wouldn't be a bad idea to go up there and take a photo and do a then and now. Not a bad idea.

What was the vibe like for you at KISS's press conference held on the USS Intrepid battleship? I was there and thought I was hallucinating when the curtains opened with the lights out and the dry ice and smoke enveloping the stage and then the band appeared. Paul Stanley: The cool thing about KISS at this point is so many people have memories and events in their lives that are tied into KISS and KISS shows, and to see the band in the flesh just transports those people. When we walked out at the Grammys, most of the audience's eyes lit up and their jaws dropped. Not because anything else except it pushes buttons in them. You know the first time you got laid or the first time you drove your parents' car or the first time you took off work to go to a show. It's about a lot of firsts and a lot of the bands remember that. It touches buttons and then for the people who never saw KISS in those days, the stories are so legendary that it does the same thing to them.

Peter Criss: I remember when we did the Grammys. He was on me constantly. I think he was just as nervous as I was. When he's nervous he picks on you. "Stand up straight." Like an old Jewish mother. When we hit that stage and I saw that audience I went crazy. I had a surge of energy. Same thing. When those curtains lifted at the press conference and I saw those bulbs go off, I was like, "Fuck, yeah, this is the boys!" Gene keeps saying to me, "Hey, Peter, sit back and enjoy the ride 'cause you're gonna really love it. It's gonna be the best ride of your life." And you know what, I think he's right. I think he's enjoying it too.

Lookit, take nothing away from KISS, they've kept the name going forever, but I know one thing. Ace and I were there to make that name what it is. I believe that with all my heart. They're the first to say we're right. If it wasn't for us there'd be no KISS. We left it and they kept it going. But whatever was there is not what the family and the magic's about. I think they got to be getting off like me and Ace. This is exciting. I don't think they got this with Eric and Bruce. The Monster wants to be the Monster. That's his persona. And I think Paulie needs to be the Star Child and he loves it. And I love being the Cat!

When you listen to an old KISS track, when you hear it, do you recall the session, or maybe think what you should have played, or do you just listen and enjoy it? Paul Stanley: You just listen to it and enjoy it. When we were putting together Smashes, Thrashes And Hits, we had the opportunity to change things in the sense that we could do some drastic EQ and some drastic remixing. We thought there's no reason for this to sound like it was recorded today because it was recorded 20 years ago. So you leave things as they are, you don't mess with them. I may listen to things and go, "That's not perfect or that could have been better," but I couldn't imagine going in and fixing it.

What was your reaction to the Cheap Trick song "Surrender," when they mentioned KISS: "Got my KISS records out"? Gene Simmons: We were amazingly flattered. First, it's great tune whether the band's mentioned in it or not. But for anyone to give us the time of day, much less mention us in a song, is amazing. It's not the only time it's happened though. Weezer recently came out with a song called "In The Garage," saying, "I've got my Peter Criss and Ace Frehley posters on the wall." I'm not even sitting here pointing to these things as if I want to pull on your shirt sleeve and say we're famous, we're important. The only reason I'm even saying it is in wonderment. I'm shocked. It's amazing that something that started off innocently enough as just four guys off the streets of New York, who just wanted to put together the band they never saw onstage, the fact that it actually worked beyond anyone's dreams is amazing.

Paul Stanley: I thought it was very cool. There were a lot of bands who were obviously influenced by us, who cited us as an influence until they became big themselves and then they decided that they forgot who their influences were. It was cool that Cheap Trick never lost that.

Ace Frehley: We always got along with those guys. That song was cool. You know me, I always used to hang around with Cheap Trick and Rush, whoever was opening for us. I got a kick out of the fact that during my career with KISS the first time around, a lot of times people ended up opening for us that I idolized. Jim McCarty, who was originally in Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, was one of my favorite guitar players. He ended up opening for us.

Is it true that KISS were going to record Elvis Presley's "Jailhouse Rock" for the studio side of Alive II? Gene Simmons: Yes, it's true. On the day that he died we were playing in San Francisco at the Cow Palace. We dedicated "Rock And Roll All Night" to him. There are certain pivotal moments in our lives. The Beatles always overshadowed the Dave Clark Five. But there's no denying that Elvis and the Dave Clark Five made our lives easier. Those songs just made it easier to take that there were Lawrence Welks in the world.

Tell us about the new KISS live compilation album, You Wanted The Best, You Got The Best! Gene Simmons: Well, again, we are clearly aware that people want new material. We haven't been insensitive to that. In fact, there's a full studio record that's been finished for awhile. It's been handed in to the record company and they have it. The record company on their own came to us and said they didn't want new material now. This is something that's more sort of a celebration of that era. We want music that celebrates that era. They wanted us to put out a brand new album of never-before-heard stuff. We're trying to also protect the boxed set because there's an enormous amount of stuff; we don't want to dilute the boxed set. There will be four previously unreleased songs on it: "Room Service," "Two Timer," "Let Me Know" and "Take Me." There will be five in Japan with "New York Groove" added.

Paul Stanley: There's a lot of stuff we recorded from concerts, including ones that weren't used on the first live album. We recorded some shows leading up to that. Actually, I was in the studio putting that album together. It was really cool to find some tracks that nobody's heard and that stood up. "Room Service" is the best of all of them, I think. And "Two Timer." It's all cool stuff.

Peter Criss: I haven't heard it yet. I think too many chefs can spoil the broth. I think the Monster, who I call Gene, and Mr. S, who I call Paul, are the best guys to be there. Ace has bopped in and out. I've stayed away. I'm waiting for them to go, "Here!"

I never knew KISS played "Two Timer" live. Gene Simmons: Oh, sure. Whenever we'd try a tune, we'd start it for awhile and if it didn't work after two or three songs it would be dropped. For awhile we were doing solo album songs. We'd do one of the tunes. We didn't think it worked as well and we dropped it. I remember doing "KISSin' Time" once at the Paramount Theatre in Portland. It didn't feel right to us. Three of the songs are from a show in Wildwood. "Two Timer" used to go into "Let Me Know" and that's the way it is on the record. "Let Me Know" was the earlier version. Later on we did "Let Me Know," with that riff that wound up on the end of "She." Originally we stuck that on when we did it in clubs. After the acappella version came that riff. We moved that around and stuck it on the end of "She."

Paul, can you clarify when you wrote songs like "Firehouse" and "Let Me Know." Paul Stanley: Yeah. "Let Me Know" was written during the same period as Wicked Lester and "Firehouse" was a little bit later. "Let Me Know" is a good song. They're all good songs. There's not a whole lot of them that I'm not proud of. It's a nice little sampler for people of the early days.

Looking at the KISStory book, there's pages after pages of photos of magazines featuring KISS on the cover. Do you still get excited when the group's on a magazine cover? Paul Stanley: It's always exciting but you're always more excited to break new ground. So depending upon what the cover is, it's always more exciting when it is something new

Can you recall a song you wrote which was more yourself and less emulating your musical heroes? Gene Simmons: Sometimes the songs would just come and sometimes I'd sit down and say I want to try and write a song like ... And I'm not sure that one is more or less relevant than the other. If subconsciously something comes out and I think, boy, that's me. It may be some little imprint of something that was there before. I know that I started off trying to consciously think I want to write a song like "Bitch," which became "Deuce." I don't know if you put on "Bitch" and say, "Oh, yeah, that sounds just like the Stones." It's a difficult question to answer but I know that with "Goin' Blind," that sort of happened with Steven Coronel and I, chords and whatever. "She" was similar, it didn't come from anywhere.

Ace Frehley: I never really wrote songs thinking about my heroes. I usually wrote songs from things that motivated me or I'd just come up with an idea for a hook or riff. I don't really have a formula for writing songs.

Paul Stanley: Sure, "Deuce." The beginning of the song was me ripping off the Raspberries. The beginning of "Deuce," the thing that starts it off, is me bastardizing "Go All The Way."

Paul, your solo album seems to have been very Raspberries-influenced. Were they an influence on you? Paul Stanley: Only an influence in the sense that I liked what they were doing and I knew where they were coming from. By the time they opened for us it was like Raspberries mark two or three. I had seen the original band at Carnegie Hall. They were great. They were influenced by the Small Faces because Eric [Carmen] was either influenced by McCartney or Marriott. I dug the Small Faces too, they were very, very cool.

Gene, your bass playing with Wicked Lester and early KISS was very adventurous, with an almost McCartney-like feel. Gene Simmons: I think it comes from not really being a bass player. I originally started playing guitar. And then clearly noticed that there were too many guitar players in the world so I took up the bass, figuring I'd get a better chance of being in a band. I know if I was in AC/DC it would be a very difficult marriage. It's tough for me to sit still and just pump. So for instance, one of the hardest KISS songs for me to play is "Lick It Up," where the bass hardly moves.

Paul, while you're the rhythm guitarist in KISS, you've played some great lead guitar solos on KISS records. Can you confirm some of the tracks you played lead on? Paul Stanley: I played lead on the intro of "C'mon And Love Me." I played the first half of "I Want You." I played the solo on "Sure Know Something."

The guitar sound on that solo is pretty wild. Paul Stanley: Maybe I didn't know how to get any other sound.

"I Stole Your Love"? Paul Stanley: That's me on the first part. I also played lead on "Shandi."

Bob Kulick told me he felt your solo on "World Without Heroes" was your best. Paul Stanley: Yeah, he always liked that. Also the solo on "Hold Me, Touch Me," from my solo album, is pretty cool. Once in a while I'll play leads. I've always thought my function in the band is not to be the lead player. At this point I'd just as soon sit back and play rhythm. I liked to think melodically with my solos. Early on, I'd work them out more than I have to now.

Paul, why do you sign your signature with a star after it? Paul Stanley: It's 'cause of the star on my face. I remember when I gave my first autograph. It was at an airport. I thought that the person was kidding [laughs]. It was a great feeling. I thought, any minute they were going to pull the paper away and go, "Sucker!"

The great thing about KISS is you've always been so accessible to the fans. You've always remained connected with the fans, as opposed to building a wall in between them. Paul Stanley: It's just common sense that the people who make you who you are, are the people who should be treated the best. It makes all the sense in the world that the people who are good to you should be treated well.

What was your impression of the KISStory book? Ace Frehley: I thought it was done pretty well. I was surprised how many photos there were of me. There were some nice quotes. We're coming out with a new version of the book where me, Paul, Peter and Gene signed the interior. There's gonna be some extra stuff, some newer stuff.

Peter Criss: I have cried looking through the KISStory book. The book is heavy, Jesus Christ, it's on my coffee table. I'm so stoked about the boys again. The high technology and all the other bullshit we're gonna have, we're different. We're wiser. We don't lie to each other at all anymore. No games, there's no time for it. I'm a real straight-on guy. There were times that Stanley was here, Gene was there, Ace was there and I was there. I was the oldest and I did get frustrated, but those days are gone. Now I think I'm the youngest [laughs]. Gene thinks I'm the child of the group. He says, "Your face has all of a sudden gotten younger."

There are some weird photos in the KISStory book of you and Paul staging a mock accident scene, with severed limbs and fake blood. What was the deal with that? Peter Criss: [laughs hysterically] We had a ball doing those. That was all special effects shit that we were doing during the day, we were messing with it. Paul and I were close, we were really buddies. We had a lot of fun together. Right now he's married and got a kid, I've got mine. We're not like we were. But when we get on the road I know Mr. S and I are gonna get real close again. I'm already feeling it. When my arm was bugging me he went out and got the best person, who he uses for his knee, for my arm. He was very concerned about my arm. No selfishness, very cool.

Paul Stanley: I was bored. We were out at a community college in Nassau County in Long Island and we were working there every day. We were running through the show two or three times a day. Other than that there was just a lot of free time. I just came up with this idea of taking some simulated accident photos.

Have you been tongue-tied meeting any of your musical heroes, like the Who? Paul Stanley: I met Pete [Townshend].

Was he aware of KISS? Paul Stanley: Oh, yeah. He was very, very warm. I'm still at a point where I walk in some place and I don't expect anybody to know who I am. Pete just came over and was like, "Hi, how are you? It's great to see you." It was very cool. He was one of my biggest influences.

Roger Daltrey told me he was a fan of KISS and wished he saw the band live. Does that make you feel good? Paul Stanley: Sure. The day I lose my heroes and the people I look up to is a pretty sad day

Gene Simmons: I've seen Pete through the years. He's phenomenal. There are people who are just beyond good. They're sort of sign posts on this rock 'n' roll highway. They leave their mark. Pete was familiar with the group. Bob Dylan and I wrote a tune together, which has yet to come out, which we have yet to completely finish, although it's been demoed already. I wrote a lyric for it called "Laughing When You Want To Cry."

But certainly when I sat in the same room with him in my guest house, 'cause he came to my house to write this tune, you're aware of people that have been here before you, who have made their mark while I was still in diapers. This is the king of lyrics. For me to sit in the same room and be treated as an equal is the highest honor. Then to find out one of the girls in his band, Scarlet Rivera, who I used to see for awhile, she knew nothing about the band when we first started out. I told her we wear makeup and she went back and told Bob and for awhile he started wearing whiteface. KISS! Been there, done it, bought the T-shirt.

Out of the Beatles I've met Ringo. Cher used to have these roller skating parties and I always thought they were sort of silly because normal people couldn't go. It was just star-studded events. So I'd sit there and Ursula Andress would go skating by, Chubby Checker, just to throw around names. I'm sitting there and two guys come up, 17, 18 years old, wearing KISS T-shirts. They started saying, "Oh, wow, man, can we have your autograph?" That routine. I was trying to be nice and coming up behind them is Ringo and I'm ready to pass out. They keep talking while he's talking in the background. I'm going, "Shh, shh, I just want to talk to Ringo for a second." And they said, "Oh, him? That's Dad, he's always coming up behind us. But talk to us about KISS." And I said, "Will you shut up. This guy was in the Beatles! Have some respect."

To them it was like, "Who cares? I don't like the Beatles." There were other people whose kids could care less about their dad's music and just loved KISS. Barry Gibb brought his kid to a KISS show and he could care less that his dad at that point was very popular with the Bee Gees. I think I met Robert Plant someplace saying hello, goodbye. I remember meeting Peter Frampton at the height of his fame at Electric Lady Studios, mixing "I'm In You." I walked by and said, "Hi, Pete, how ya doing?" And he said, "Oh, fine, fine." And then I walked by. And he was saying "Who was that guy?" because I was six or seven inches taller than him in the heels. Once his guy said "That's Gene Simmons of KISS," he just about passed out. He goes, "That's the guy," 'cause he didn't know what I looked like without makeup.

Ace Frehley: I met the Stones, I know Keith and Mick. I've met them a couple of times. I never met the guys from Zeppelin.

You roadied for Jimi Hendrix one night? Ace Frehley: Yeah, one night. It was his last show in New York. I snuck backstage and set up Mitch Mitchell's drums. It was at Randalls Island.

Peter Criss: I met the Stones and they were stoned [laughs]. They were all wasted and so was I, probably. That's what it was about. Charlie and Bill were very sweet guys. Mick, I think, was a dick. Keith was real nasty and that I expected. They were what they were. But I love them, I'm a major Rolling Stones fan. You know the story about Paul McCartney saving my life?

No. Peter Criss: He saved my ass; that's how I got to meet him. I was on this jet ski and my daughter was just born and we went to Barbados. We were staying around the bend from Paul. He had a home there. I was on this jet ski and didn't know how to use it and it was dragging me through the ocean. I was hanging on like an idiot, feeling like a cartoon [imitates funny cartoon noises of someone hitting the water repeatedly]. And this hand comes down and picks me up and it's Paul McCartney. I almost had a heart attack. He takes me back and Linda's sitting in the sand with the kids. And I go "Linda, I'm Peter Criss. We have somebody in common, Eddie Kramer." She goes, "Yeah." And I said, "I'm from KISS." She goes "Oh, my God, my kids are big fans." And I go, "Holy shit!" My wife, Debra at the time, goes, "Wow, I'm a big fan of yours." And he does a tap dance in the sand and he jumps back on his jet ski and goes in the ocean. How fucking cool!

I didn't meet Ringo but his son Zak, when he was young, was a big KISS fan. Vini Poncia, who knew Ringo well, asked me to send Zak a CARE package, I sent him a huge care package of KISS memorabilia and check it out, I think Ringo called and thanked me. Not long ago I met Zak at Brooklyn Studios and he thanked me in person. And it blew my mind. My total idol is Jimmy Stewart. I'd drop dead if I could meet Jimmy Stewart. Gene keeps saying he's gonna set it up for me. I hope before he's dead he sets it up for me. I met Sean Connery and, wow! I saw John Lennon in New York but I was too scared to speak. I was on the street with Lydia, my first wife, we were shopping. I'll never forget it. John Lennon's my idol;. When he died I cried for a week, I got drunk for a week, I lit candles in my house for a week. I was so depressed. I redid "Jealous Guy" on one of my solo albums. I thought I did a damn good job on that, personally. My daughter loves it, she still plays it.

Anyhow, a black limo comes up and the door opens and fucking shit, it's John Lennon! He was wearing his white outfit and my heart stood still. I couldn't talk, I was dumbfounded. I was in shock. Here was my hero, my god. It all happened by accident. It was on 58th street, a very heavy clothing section. Then Yoko steps out and I'm saying, "Why can't you talk, Peter?" And he passes me by and goes into the store. And Lydia comes up and I'm stuttering "JJJJ-John, J-J-JJohn Lennon" [laughing]. Yeah, and she's going, "Yeah, he's in the store." And I go, "No. Fuck, yeah, Lydia, he's in the store." And she's like, "Holy shit, let's meet him." And I told her, "I can't, I'm scared." But she says, "But he's your idol!" And I go "I can't, I can't." He comes back out and she goes into shock and she couldn't talk, That was his presence. He was so heavy. He looked at me and I just couldn't talk to him.

The day before he died, my brother-in-law is the doorman at the Dakota, got his fucking autograph on his last album Double Fantasy, for me. I swear to my mother. "To Pete from John Lennon." And he died that night. It's hanging on my wall in a frame. Does that blow your mind? Hey, I've never told stuff like this to anybody! Like I say, KISS is the American guy, but come on, the Beatles? I mean, Jesus Christ. Hey, reality is reality. And I know Gene loves the Beatles and Paul does too. There's no getting around it. Let's be honest here.

You have a great story about meeting another of your heroes, Steve Marriott. Gene Simmons: I was doing a demo for "Naked City" and Paul, myself, Peppy Castro, who was a co-writer, and Bob Kulick was there. Also Karla DeVito, who was a friend, came in to sing. We're coming into this studio that's under Studio 54. Coming out is Steve Marriott. He's still inside finishing his session and we were coming in. On the way in I'm going, "Steve Marriott! Wow, you're great!" And it was an innocent question and I know I must have come off like an idiot. I must have said, "Hey, where have you been?" I meant to say, "Come out with a record or something like that." And he came back with a sassy answer, something like, "I was at home fucking your mother!" And I went, "That's great, that's rock 'n' roll."

Paul Stanley: Steve was around New York a lot and he was at a recording studio in New York and we went down to see him. He was loaded out of his mind, just completely wasted. Gene said to him "Hey, Steve, where ya been?" And he said, "Up your mother's bum!" He basically said it and doubled over laughing. It was something blurted out of a drunken stupor. There was no hostility, it was just brash.

You loved Humble Pie. Paul Stanley: Humble Pie was awesome. I saw them at the Fillmore. I saw them with Frampton and afterwards. They were an awesome band.

Paul, you spoke recently about how tribute albums were passe and the only one you'd do would be a Beatles tribute album. If that came together, what song would you choose? Paul Stanley: I'd really have to think about it. It's a tough one because when you think of Beatles song you not only think of the songs but you think of the performance. And to mess with that is kind of like messing with perfection. You'd want to inject your own take and perspective and it's kind of hard to compete with the best. I loved every period of the Beatles. Toward the end it was a little painful to listen to because it was obvious it wasn't a band.

It must blow your mind that KISS are second after the Beatles for the most gold and platinum records. Paul Stanley: It's very cool. The Beatles are the mark to be measured by.

Tell me about your ideas for KISS's self-proclaimed Monster Of All Box Sets? Gene Simmons: After this live commemorative record, You Wanted The Best And You Got It, everybody thinks we come up with all these ideas. All we are is sort of conduits for it. Once people get the vibe they come to the party. This guy Jason actually thought of the title for the live compilation. First that comes out and then hopefully the new studio record. After that, who knows? Possibly a boxed set. The boxed set is going to be a killer. I've been meticulous in keeping demos of everything I've recorded. I uncovered the original eight-track tape of Paul singing "God Of Thunder" and the original version of "Detroit Rock City." I have the original tape from the Daisy, when we played there.

Ace Frehley: I don't really have anything that Gene and Paul don't have. There's some of those Elder tracks with more guitar work on them. Some of the tracks I did some amazing guitar work on them. Bob Ezrin thought it was overkill but I think it's just a matter of taste.

Paul Stanley: We keep putting off the boxed set because our ideas of it just gets bigger and bigger. There's loads of original demos. In the '70s I used to go to Electric Lady Studios and do my demos. I used to take over the studio and record it. It was just my way of having fun. The demo of "Love Gun"'s really good. As much good stuff as we want to put on, we have original KISS recordings at the Daisy and Wicked Lester.

You did the Wicked Lester songs "Keep Me Waiting" and "Simple Type" with KISS at the Daisy. Paul Stanley: They were like transitional songs. As we were building up the catalog of KISS songs we still had to flesh out the set.

Gene Simmons: "Simple Type" became "Charisma." It was written on acoustic guitar. The feel, especially that Spanish section, was because I was playing acoustic.

What is the background on some rare KISS and pre-KISS songs that have never been released, starting with "Chimney Sweeps." Gene Simmons: "Chimney sweeps are always laughing, we will always be the same ... we'll reach the stars and then. We'll work if they want to. Play if they want to be. Chimney Sweeps..." That was written in '69.

You wrote a song called "Never Loving, Never Living" for your early band, the Post War Baby Boom. Does a recording of that exist? Paul Stanley: Yeah. I don't have it. I wrote it. I don't know if it would be possible to find it, unfortunately. It was a guy trying to get us a deal who booked us into CBS and Columbia to do a demo, with the idea of getting us signed onto the label. The music of that band was very San Francisco. Jefferson Airplane, the Peanut Butter Conspiracy. It was kind of in that ballpark.

Did Uncle Joe do any recording? Paul Stanley: Yeah, we did. God only knows where that stuff is. It was just turn the amps up real loud and I'll see you at the end of the song. There weren't very intricate songs worked out. It was a power trio without a bass [laughs]. We didn't know any bass players so it was two guitars.

Why'd you name the band Uncle Joe? Was there an uncle who was bankrolling the band? Paul Stanley: No. It was actually a nickname of Josef Stalin. Neil Teeman played drums and Matt Rael played guitar. Stan Singer played with me in a band called Tree, with Steve Coronel. Tree was a four-piece group with me, Steve Coronel, Marty Cohen playing bass, who also played with Gene and Stan Singer. We were doing covers like "Mississippi Queen," "Honky Tonk Women."

"About Her." Gene Simmons: That was written around the same time. [Singing] "And I know that she is driving me out of my mind. Once again I'd like to know if you are blind."


"Long Road" is an unreleased Wicked Lester studio track.

Paul Stanley: It's kind of like a country-tinged, folky ballad. I didn't write it. On the Wicked Lester album there was a lot of material that we didn't write.

Gene Simmons: [Singing] "And it's a long, long road to somewhere ..." I don't believe that that's true. I think that that's the middle section of "Too Many Mondays."

"Suitor." Paul Stanley: "Suitor" was from Wicked Lester and was one of the songs we played live but never recorded.

How about "Stanley The Parrot" and "Eskimo Sun"? Gene Simmons: Oh, sure. "Stanley The Parrot" became "Strutter." Those chords I used to play for Paul all the time. He picked up on the chords and took the chords and started fooling around with them. Then I added a riff. Then it was Paul who wrote most of the lyrics. "Stanley The Parrot" was written before I met Paul. "Eskimo Sun" is about a place where they make love at nighttime, which is six months out of the year. It's just a concept piece and that became "Only You." [a song on KISS's Music From The Elder album]. If you pick at the chords of "Only You" that is "Eskimo Sun."

Paul Stanley: Yeah, "Eskimo Sun" was one of Gene's tunes. It was a cool song. It was kind of Beatley. At that point I think Gene's biggest influence was McCartney. So all the stuff had a tinge of that too it.

I guess on the Wicked Lester song "Molly" your McCartney influence also comes out. Paul Stanley: Oh, yeah. "Molly" was very, very McCartney Ram era, the solo album stuff.

You've described Wicked Lester to me as "eclectic crap" but in actuality there's some good music on that unreleased album. Paul Stanley: Nobody's heard a quality version of it. I've heard all the bootlegs and they're horrible They're either sped up or they're missing parts, left side, right side. It was a period where we were happy to be in the recording studio and we would do anything anybody told us.

I found "We Wanna Shout It Out Loud," which Wicked Lester covered on their album, on a Hollies album. Did that song's title influence KISS when writing "Shout It Out Loud"? Gene Simmons: It did, I'm guilty of that. We were sitting around with Bob Ezrin and he started pumping out some chords and Paul started pumping out some chords that sounded like [imitates chords] and I immediately began singing, "Shout it, shout it, shout it out loud." It just felt right.

How about "Life In The Woods"? Paul Stanley: "Life In The Woods" was more like a riff and the lyrics just came afterwards. The lyrics were just kind of spat out so we had something to sing. The lyrics were very bizarre. There was a band called the Buddy Miles Express, who were awesome, just a phenomenal band. They had a song called "Them Changes," which was a very, very cool song. I guess "Life In The Woods" was influenced by that.

Gene Simmons: It was one of the songs that we played at the Daisy. Paul wrote it. It reminds me of a song by the group Detroit with Mitch Ryder. We never recorded it. The lyric was always bizarre: "Life in the woods would be easy ... flowers and trees. Keeping in tune with the city, singing along with the breeze." The lyrics were bizarre but the riff was outstanding. We've been lucky there's been more than one writer in the band so there's been an awful lot of material. I probably have close to 200 songs sitting around in demo form.

Ace Frehley: I remember that. We were actually kidding around with that at rehearsal. It was different.

Peter Criss: Holy shit! I haven't remembered that song until you just told me. It was ridiculous. It was out of there. That's a real early KISS song. That's way back.

Ace, prior to KISS didn't you record for album for RCA Records with a group called Millemo? Ace Frehley: We didn't record a whole album. I think we did four or five tracks. Most of the songs were written by the two leaders of the group. I was just the lead guitar player. The lineup was kind of like Jefferson Airplane. It had a girl and a guy lead singer, bass, guitar, drums and keyboards.

"Acrobat" is the precursor to "Detroit Rock City," correct? Gene Simmons: I've always tried to bust Paul on that, saying you took that from there, but he's never owned up to it. If you take "Two Timer," it's "Detroit Rock City." We hear things and whether if affects you consciously or not, what the difference?

Were "Keep Me Waiting" and "Simple Type" planned to be recorded by KISS? Gene Simmons: With KISS, yeah. There was a transitional period where KISS was called Wicked Lester. And toward the end of Wicked Lester we were doing "Deuce" and "Firehouse" and "She." That material just didn't sound right coming out of that band. In retrospect, we were out of our minds. We had a contract with Wicked Lester with Epic Records that was set! All we had to do was put the record out. We decided to literally commit musical suicide by keeping true to our point of view, which is, we don't believe in this music. We don't believe this is who we are and the soldiers in this army should fight the war. We don't feel they're qualified.

"Queen For A Day." Gene Simmons: "Queen For A Day" was the title for a song I never finished.

How about "Mongoloid Man"? Gene Simmons: "Mongoloid Man" I have a demo of. Joe Perry and I did it. It's a very bizarre tune, a heavy riff song. It's almost like a dance version of "War Machine."

Gene, there's another song floating in collectors circles, which is a demo of you doing a real Beatlesque song called "Love Is Blind," with beautiful harmonies.

Gene Simmons: It's just me with a click track. I did all the stuff, all the harmonies.

Do you still write Beatlesque songs with a heavy melodic flavor, even though they're not earmarked for KISS? Gene Simmons: Oh, all the time. Tons. I have full demos of that stuff. Perhaps we'll put some on the boxed set. What comes out of you, it comes out. You start strumming and what comes out, comes out

How about "Legends Never Die." Did KISS ever record that song? Gene Simmons:. We actually did. During the Creatures Of The Night phase we tried it and Paul wasn't crazy about the tune. I don't think we ever put the vocal on. I think we only tried it as a band. It sounded very similar to the version that Wendy O. Williams recorded. Let me think about this, I think what I did was I took our version and put her vocal on it. That's what happened.

"Fourever" sounds like it would be a classic Gene Simmons KISS song. Gene Simmons: Never recorded. It was just a demo. On that song I had a clear point of view about the Dave Clark Five. I immediately took that Tottenham Sound.

"I've Just Begun To Fight." Gene Simmons: On that one I clearly said I wanna rip off "Dr. Love." And if you take a look at the chords, they're not dissimilar. But it was just done when we have time off. In those days there were no other KISS things to take our attention away, no KISS conventions, KISStory or KISSnation. In fact, there's another magazine we're putting together called KISS Alive Worldwide '96 Tour Magazine. The KISStory book hit such a nerve with fans in terms of, "Wow, nobody else does this!" We've decided that we'll do a lot more of this because, number one, it's a lot of fun, and number two, who else deserves this except KISS fans?

Think of the enormous loyalty we have. It goes way beyond. You can't imagine the technical nightmare of putting KISStory together. Forget about even photographing the collection or finding the people who would do it. But just the printing process or shipping and insurance. Keeping the enormous amount of photos on file and knowing where they go. The credits and figuring out how to mail it and insure it. Just enormous stuff. It's important, but in the course of human nature it's not important. What's important are farmers. Farmers who work hard and make food so we can live. Above and beyond that, KISS and rock 'n' roll and music is only important once you're fed and taken care of. Given that, after this whole thing is over I don't want to be remembered by a special issue of KISS that Rip put out or even Goldmine. No matter how good it is it's gonna be somebody else's point of view of what it is. Fans want to know what this thing is. KISStory is just the beginning. We're already adding chapters to it and at the end of it there's gonna be more. This book is not the end. We've got to strengthen the binding and improve the shipping.

Paul Stanley: It's the same kind of thing where there's new interviews, loads of photos, articles about guitars. It's being put together right now. This'll be available on the newsstands. This is different than KISSnation.

It would nice if you added supplements that people who already own the book could purchase. Some might not be able to afford buying another copy of KISStory for a few new chapters. Gene Simmons: See, I think when you do something it shouldn't be about doing a For Sale thing where you add things. When you do something be true to it. If everybody can't get it, that's okay 'cause if you dilute the quality of a Rolls Royce, it comes one way, period. It has one price and that's it. And it isn't for everybody. It's only for the people who want it and have to have it and want a certain quality, whether its a Mercedes or whatever. We're either gonna put out the best stuff, whether it's KISSnation or the KISS Alive magazine or the KISStory book, it's either gonna be the best of its kind or it's gonna be a For Sale thing. When you go to buy things on sale, usually you get what you pay for. You bring it home and it's like, "Hey, this T-shirt is washing out."

What's the status of KISSnation? Paul Stanley: KISSnation has the comic in it, the comic art and all that. It's done. The comic looks awesome.

New costumes or old costumes? Paul Stanley: Kind of stylized versions, but not the old costumes.

Gene Simmons: KISSnation is coming out. We have two alternative distribution methods. Marvel Comics decided to create a section called Marvel Music. KISS was going to be the flagship band that was going to launch all this stuff. I have the finished pages all here. It is brilliant. It's an enormous magazine. Every page is glossy. There's over 50 articles in it. Marvel Music went through a reorganization, so that section is dead. All the bands that they put out, the Stones, the Beatles and Elvis, all those magazines bombed. There was only one rock 'n' roll band that was able to make the transition to comic books. We didn't just want a comic book. So KISSnation will appear either under the Marvel banner or a separate distributor but we're not going to do it until everything is set and all the legal work is done. So it's been held up. It will be out when it's right. We plan to do this on a regular basis.

Bill Aucoin and Sean Delaney confirm video footage of the band where each member was shot during rehearsals. In your early days, it was a way to help improve your stage presence. Gene Simmons: True. We rented stuff that camera crews for TV stations had. In fact, the very first show that we played at Coventry, we videotaped the whole show.

Peter Criss: That impressed me about Bill Aucoin. Here we are in 1972, in a basement with video cameras on us. After we're done we'd watch ourselves to see how stupid or how cool we look. Whatever's cool, keep, whatever's stupid, lose. This director is doing this. I thought about that and I say that's genius. I'd love to see it. I'd like to see myself at 26 playing again in the basement.

Ace Frehley: In the beginning we used to critique stuff we did but after awhile it came pretty natural. Sean, in the beginning, would help us with our choreography. But after awhile we did it ourselves.

Paul Stanley: We were rehearsing in a basement down near Canal Street. We rehearsed down there and we set up a video camera just so we could see how we moved, and check ourselves out.

Why hasn't KISS released that yet? Gene Simmons: [laughs] Give us time. There's so much. People think they have these bootleg copies of things, that ain't nothing. We have to keep moving the warehouse because everybody, sooner or later, finds this and as soon as one person has it, everybody has it.

What are your recollections of some memorable KISS shows, starting with Coventry? Paul Stanley: Coventry was a study in contrasts. The first time we played there, there was nobody there. The last time we played there you could barely get in the door. It was very cool. It was the first place we played when we got a record deal. We announced onstage that we'd gotten a record deal. The gig that we announced that we had been signed to a record company was filmed. I'm sure it still exists.

Gene Simmons: About 200 people could fit in there. The Daisy was a hole in the wall. Coventry was a step above that. It was located in Sunnyside or Astoria [in Queens].

Peter Criss: Nobody was there [laughs]. Just Gene's girlfriend and like two people. It was a nightmare. We killed ourselves for six people. But then when we eventually played there enough times, I remember pulling up one night in the car with the boys and there was a line down the block. We went, "Holy shit! Wow, this is cool!" We had to go through the crowd and they were all patting us on the back and we made it to the basement and we said, "Fuck!" It was cool. Those were the days, with the [New York] Dolls and the Planets playing.

Ace Frehley: It was a fun hole in the wall. I remember going there to see the New York Dolls. It was a happening place. At the time everybody in the New York scene played that joint. It was only 10 minutes out of the city over the 59th street bridge.

Weren't you delivering liquor then? Ace Frehley: God, I've done everything from delivering furniture to being a mailman to delivering liquor to being a messenger. I drove a taxi too.

The Hotel Diplomat. Gene Simmons: It was still seedy, prostitute haven. Lower middle class. We played in the Crystal Ballroom. Like if a hotel costs a hundred bucks you could sleep there for 50. But it wasn't a welfare hotel.

Paul Stanley: The Diplomat was really cool because it's where we met Bill Aucoin and it's where everybody came to see us, every record company, everybody who heard the buzz. Most of them came in and said this was great but we don't know what to do with it. We started to fill the place.

Ace Frehley: The Diplomat was a trip. Basically, what we did was we got two or three other bands on the bill and promoted the show ourselves.

Peter Criss: The Diplomat was very cool. The Diplomat was the shit. I wish it were around today. I wish people could see what it was like then, because it was like the roots of metal. It was a young band really, really fucking becoming something. Everybody was starting to sprout from New York. The New York scene was very hot.

When Bill Aucoin came back after one of the Hotel Diplomat shows and offered to manage the group, were you skeptical or excited? Gene Simmons: I think it was neither. We simply took the point of view that we had nothing to lose and meantime we were going to keep plugging.

What was KISS's relationship with The New York Dolls? Was there any friction? Paul Stanley: Not at all. They were the biggest band in New York and we wanted to be the biggest band in the world. I think they were scared shitless of us. They were cool, they looked cool and they had an amazing vibe, but they would never play with us in the beginning. I remember talking in the bathroom of the Diplomat to Sylvain [Sylvain], their rhythm player. And I said, "We should do a show together." And he said, "We won't play with you, you'll kill us!" They weren't stupid.

The Academy Of Music. Peter Criss: The first time I really felt like a star was at that show. Gene and Paul gave me that feeling. I was going, "I don't know if we're gonna make it. We ain't going nowhere and all that bullshit." And they sent a limo for me and I go, "Wow, this is cool!" This is what the big guys must feel like.

What are your memories of Cadillac High, Michigan, where the whole town went KISS crazy. The football team and city officials even put on the makeup. Ace Frehley: It was a little chilly that day. It was very bizarre. I felt like the circus had come to town [laughs]. We were driving down this main street of this small Midwestern town. The football team wore makeup. It was pretty trippy.

Peter Criss: Jesus Christ, man, it was a parade. It was insanity. Here we are on a float going down the street in fucking winter. All these people. There was a KISS day, a KISS street. It was fanatical. I can't wait to play in the area again. What pioneers KISS was. If we weren't the covered wagon metalers, I don't know what was.

Tell us about headlining Anaheim Stadium in 1976. Peter Criss: That's my favorite gig of all gigs with KISS, because it was the biggest. It was so exciting. I remember going down to the stage in golf carts, getting closer, and hearing the roar of the crowd and these people stomping on these metal seats through this huge stadium and the echo. I'll never forget that sound. My heart pounded like it was gonna go through my chest. When I hit that stage and those bombs went off, forget about it. Now I know there's gonna be so many more of those nights. I'm gonna lavish in it. I don't even have a woman in my life but I'm looking [laughs].

Paul Stanley: That was 55,000 people. It was a high point but I don't remember it being a stellar show. It was a high point in terms of the crowd size.

Ace Frehley: That was a gas. That was a real special night. Not only was it a great show but after the show a lot of celebrities were there, like Billy Crystal and Mackenzie Phillips.

How about the time that Creem magazine writer Jaan Uhelski was painted up wearing elements of each member's makeup and came out onstage at a show in Pennsylvania. Gene Simmons: We had a real fondness for Creem magazine. They were really early supporters. It was a real rock 'n' roll magazine. Almost a combination of Kerrang meets a young Rolling Stone crossed with Goldmine, actually. They weren't afraid to say a band sucked if they thought so. We got some of it right between the teeth every once in a while. All of that is okay is if they don't take themselves too seriously, as long as the critic doesn't say, "I am the tastemaker and what I say is most important." They'd poke fun at themselves. Creem wanted us to do that thing with Jaan. It was for an article she was writing called "I Was a KISS something or other in my Teenage Bra." I've seen her since. She married Matthew Kaufman, the guy at Beserkley Records. Since then she wrote a cover story for one of the Bay area magazines called BAM and recalled that actually. She went to the KISS convention and all the memories flooded back.

Paul Stanley: It was fun, It was just a goof and it was done and forgotten quickly. Creem were really big on the band and it was cool. They were in our corner.

KISS's first Madison Square Garden show. Paul said when he watches the video he still sees the fear in his eyes. Gene Simmons: It meant an awful lot but fear was not one of the thoughts in my mind. It's like one of those soldiers who gets shot but they keep walking forward because they're so motivated, they're on auto-pilot. No matter what, if we sucked I wasn't gonna let the opportunity go. And fear was just not a consideration. I am not going to accept fear. I was not afraid at all that night but I'm gonna tell you, we sucked that night. We were not very good because everybody was showing off a bit and because of that the music wasn't on. The energy level on that stage was great. Paul was able to harness his nervousness and really come out flying. And I was just too intent on killing all living things and people walked out of there saying, "Wow!" We know that we didn't play well.

Paul Stanley: There's a certain amount of terror. Fear isn't the worst thing in the world. I can't say I remember how we played. But I don't remember a whole lot of bad shows. We were always very hard on ourselves. It was a way for us to be harsh on ourselves and always try to be at our best. There were times where we may have thought a show wasn't great but our fans thought they were great shows.

Ace Frehley: That was pretty special. We all kind of looked at each other and went, "Wow, now we've made it!" We headlined the Garden and sold it out.

Paul, there's a great quote of yours in KISStory where you speak about how the group's initial success led the band on a roller coaster ride without anyone having control Paul Stanley: We were playing Toledo, Ohio and Dayton and a place called Hara Arena. You realize that selling out is not a fluke. It's happening every night and places are packed. And the ride's about to begin.

Initially, Paul was a bit tentative as a showman but later developed into one of rock's most accomplished frontmen. Gene Simmons: Initially on the tape from the Daisy, you hear everybody talking. Paul starts talking to the audience, Peter's talking to the audience and even I'm kind of going, yeah! We took the point of view that this was the Beatles. Everybody wrote songs, everybody sang and we weren't gonna play the Mick Jagger routine, which is one guy stands in front and says, "Look at me, look at me, look at me!" On the other hand, with the Beatles anybody could talk. For some reason with us, everybody's got their day in the sun, everybody's got their fans. It's a four-wheel drive band but Paul should talk. I always felt if I talked it would dilute who I was onstage. It would snap me out of a mood. It's almost like if you're in bed with a girl and you're really passionate and all that and then you start talking, the mood changes and it's over.

I know when I get up onstage and run around in my makeup and smell the leather and studs it's a completely different mindframe. The last thing I want to do is discuss something. The reality of it is Paul had to come up in his performance level because I was not gonna sit back and say I shouldn't really be out there because Paul wasn't really pushing. The truth is that one of the great things about the band is when any one of us pushes real hard it forces everybody else to say, "Uh-oh, I better get up there or I'm gonna be left behind."

Paul, can you speak about how you blossomed and evolved into a great and confident showman? Paul Stanley: You have to get your feet wet. You can go full throttle and make a complete ass of yourself because you don't know what you're doing. Or you can take it in steps. If you're gonna grow in public you want to do it as gracefully as possible [laughs]. And not fall on your face more times than is necessary. Doing what I do took some time.

How about a memory of Tokyo when KISS first toured over there in 1977? Gene Simmons: When you go to Europe there's all kinds of people.