Ace Frehley Interview Goldmine Magazine 11/20/98

Ace Frehley, affectionately dubbed "The Space Ace," is a master axeman, more comfortable on his own planet than Earth. His raw, uncompromising lead guitar playing is at the heart of Kiss' sound. Evolving as a songwriter through the past two decades, Ace's tunes evoke a Typically spacey and hedonistic view of life and love, all in the name of rock 'n' roll glory. Often imitated but never duplicated, Ace's guitar style is lauded by the likes of Pearl Jam, Lenny Kravitz, Metallica and Soundgarden to name but a few. Outside of Kiss, Ace is a talented graphic artist, computer wiz and all around tech head. As an interview subject, Ace is,a real treat, peppering his quotes with off the record and off-color jokes that would make Richard Pryor blush.

Goldmine: Bring us back to the band's first full reunion show at Detroit'sTiger Stadium. What was running through your mind putting on the makeup backstage, was there a mixture of nerves and anticipation?

Ace Frehley: That was one of the few shows where I did get a little nervous for. I was just telling Gene, "I don't know what it is but when we were on tour last time I didn't get nervous." I'm playing sober. I always used to have a couple of drinks before I went on stage. I talked to my thetapist about it and she said it's probably due to the fact that you have a lot more self confidence, a tot higher self esteem and you're an established icon now in the world. So there's really nothing to be afraid of when you walk out because you can do no wrong.

It must have been surreal looking to your left and right seeing Paul and Gene in full makeup?

We did dress rehearsals for a week at Cobo Hall so by opening night it wdsift that weird to look at them. But it was fun for the first time beingback in front of a big audience. I'm really looking forward to opening night, Halloween, because now that we've got two hundred shows under our belt, we'll add three or four new songs from the record and maybe a couple of old ones we haven't done. Right now we're in the middle of getting ready physically for the tour too. It's easier because I know what to expect, I'm working with the same trainer. We're good buddies, we go out and have dinner together. In 96 when I met him I didn't know him. Now he knows how to work my body, how far to push me, how far not to and how to get the best results in the quickest amount of time.

How about playing-wise?

Playing? Guitar has never been easier for me (laughs). Back when I was re-learning the solo for "100,000 Years" it was hard, now I can do it with my eyes closed. I played it two hundred shows (laughs). But when I listened to it for the first time again back in '96 I was goin' "when the fuck did I write this, it's so bizarre!"

What was it like being back with the band again?

I think it was a lot easier, I got a lot more respect from the guys because I didn't walk in drunk or ten hours late. We communicate much better now because we're on the same level plus in the interim those guys, whether they realize it or hot, I had produced four albums without them. I learned how to engineer with my own studio. I learned a lot. I used to walk into the studio and be intimidated. Now I feel at home in the studio. I'm the one that's asking the questions, "which kind of compressors have you got, give me an Eventide digital delay", cause I know everything. I'm working with pro tools now which is so cool because it allows you to do anything.

You've always been a tech head.

We used pro tools for the album. We recorded the drums originally on analog tape and then we transferred it to one inch digital tape. Once something's broken down into digital and if you send it into pro tools you can do anything. If a drum beat is off you can shift it slightly. If one of the vocals is great except for one note which is slightly flat or sharp you can change the pitch of it and nobody will know (laughs). So in reality, somebody who is really good with pro tools can bring in a really shitty band and make lem sound great (laughs). The only problem is you could make a great album but what happens when you go on tour? They can't reproduce it.

Hopefully you'll pull out some gems that haven't been played live ever Are you gonna do "Rochet Ride"?

We played around with "Rocket Ride." I'm still pushing for "Parasite." We're fooling around with "She." There's a few others.

Are there any Kiss songs that you would have loved the band to perform?

One song I always wanted to play live was "Hard Times.' The only problem with that is I just don't know if Peter would be able to recreate that feel that Anton did on the record. Peter's playing better than ever. Anton plays one way and Peter plays another way. That's the one song that I always wanted to do live with Kiss but I don't know if it would work with us.

Do you think Bruce Fairbairn really understood what Kiss was all about?

No.1 had a lot of arguments with him about the mixing because the oripinal mixes I heard had the harmonies too loud and the guitars and the drums weren't tood enough. I said, "this sounds way over lproduced, you've got to get more of a raiw sound. You've got to hear the drums and the guitars. That's Kiss!' I remixed "Into The Void," took me four hours. When I heard the original mix I wasn't happy with it at all. I flew in, heard the mix, I called up Gene aand I called up Bruce Fairbairn. I said I wanted to go in and remix that tonight. I won't The able to sleep. I went in, they were very, accommadating and they were nice enough to accommodate me. They said "if you think you can improve it, improve it." So we we went in there and I think we got a better mix.

Ace, did you write many songs for the new record ?

Oh yeah, I tracked like five or six new songs with Anton (Fig) up at my new home. I've got a twenty-four track digital studio in the basement.

When you sat down to write for Psycho Circus, did you specifically try to cater your writing to falling within the confines of the band's vintage makeup sound?

Nope. I just write what's on my mind, t don't really think about it. My style really hasn't changed as far as my songwriting. I think if you pulled a song off of Trouble Walkin' or you pulled my song "Into The Void," my style hasn't really changed that much. I think I've just improved as a song writer and improved as a guitarist. My singing's gotten better. Your voice is like a muscle, the more yu use it, the stronger it gets. It's amazing. The more practice, the better you play.

Ace, was it fun to put together the backwards guitar part on "Within"?

The backwards part on "Within"? I'm not sure I even did that (laughs) but I'm going to be doing it live.

Ace, tell us about "Into The Void."

I thought that song was one of the strongest songs I presented first to the band. There's another one Sebastian Bach and I wrote called "You Make It Hard For Me." That'll probably end up on the next Kiss album if we do one or if it ends next year, I'll probably get a solo deal and put it on my solo album.

The melody of the verse reminds me of "Mr Blackwell" from The Elder.

I hear it in my head what you're talking about. I wrote it with my friend Karl Cochran who played bass for me on my last tour as a solo artist. Even though he was playing bass with me, his main instrument is lead guitar. He came up with the tiff and basically I just added the arrangement, changed some chords, and wrote the bridge, wrote all the lyrics. Once I presented the song to the band and we decided we were going to track it, Paul helped me arrange it so it would breathe a little more. He said, "let's open it up and let one measure drone, let it breathe a little." He also came up with that high guitar part which goes though the chorus. I think it's a real good hook.

Many fans have been saying "Into The Void" sounds the most like Kiss.

It makes me feel good. The reality is "Into The Void" is the only song where all four of us really collaborated on it, all gave input.

How was it different on the other trachs?

There were other songs that were just written by Paul and I had no input on it, Gene had no input on it. Some of Gene's songs were already set, the arrangement and everything. He brought it in and we tracked them the way they were.

How did you divide up the guitar work on the album, as Paul plays a few guitar solos too.

How did we divide it up? Whoever was around and whatever sounded good (laughs).

Would you both play rhythm tracks together?

I played rhythm on "Into The Void" (laughs).

How about some of the other tracks?

You know, I don't even remember what rhythm I played. it was mostly solo work I did and vocals, I did some harmonies on "You Wanted The Best." I did some lead vocals, we all trade off lead vocals on that song.

It's interesting, on "Raise Your Glasses," in the guitar solo that Paul plays, near the end of it, he plays a lick from one of your Kiss solos.

I know. I'm not sure what song it's from. just too many solos running through my head (laughs).

It sounds like you on lead but it's Paul.

I find it flattering when Paul tries to come up. with a solo, he tries to make it sound like my style. I don't know if he does it intentionally or subconsciously, after working with me on and off for so many years. But it works. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter to me who plays what, obviously I'm going to be doing the solos live. Whatever it takes to make a great record, we do it.

How do you think Paul's improved as a guitarist?

He's improved dramatically, as a musician and as a songwriter. His vocal range has far exceeded anybody in the band. He can sing higher than he ever could before, I think he spans three or four octaves. He's got an incredible range, much more so than he did in the Seventies. His lead playing has really improved, he's playing better than ever.

One thing I miss about the record, perhaps it's in the way Fairbairn mixed it, is there's no real separation with your rhythm part and Paul's, it sounds like one big guitar.

That's the way they wanted to mix it. I don't have a problem with it. I think music changes and I still think the album has the Kiss signature on it. Everybody I've spoken to says it's far exceeded anybody's expectations.

The verses "You Wanted The Best- deal with the band's differences, how are the group getting along nowadays?

We have meetings now and we talk it out. In fact we had a real heartfelt meeting a couple days ago. We walked out of the room hugging each other and everybody was feeling good. A lot of times you keep things pent up-. Everybody said what was on their mind and what was bothering everybody about everybody else. Everybody took it like a man and everybody admitted wherever they had fucked up, they fucked up. Most of the fuck ups were me (laughs). Nah, just kidding. To be honest with you, we've all admitted it, if it wasn't for the band, we probably wouldn't be hanging out with each other 'cause all four of us are so different and so diversified in our interests. But the bottom line is there's a chemistry that the four of us generate that we all sense and we can't put our finger on it. That chemistry in conjunction with the fact that we each created our own character and it just worked. And the audience goes ape shit whicn makes it special for us and makes us enjoy and respect each other.

Do you have a favorite song on the record written by another member?

Yeah, "Psycho Circus."

There are many rumors flying about outside musicians playing on Psycho Circus. Set the record straight. First, is Peter playing drums on the entire record.

No one played on the whole record. I didn't play on every song, Gene didn't play bass on every song. Paul didn't play rhythm on every song. Peter didn't play drums on every song.

Who did?

I have no idea. Getting back to who played what on what to me isn't important. I really don't want to go any further than that. But the bottom line is the sound of Kiss is on the record and Peter's going to be playing "Into The Void" live, 'Within" live. He's gonna be doing "Psycho Circus." Those are the three killer tracks we decided to start off the tour with playing live. We may change that down the road.

It's also been said that Bruce Kulick plays lead guitar on two songs, "Within" and "Dreamin'." I'll be honest, it sounds like it could be Bruce playing on those two songs.

If Bruce was on the record I didn't see him in the studio. I haven't seen Bruce Kulick since I saw him perform with his band Union. I just shook his hand and said "good to see ya, (laughing) no hard feelings." All I know is I never saw Bruce in the studio, I swear to God. I have no idea of what Bruce did. Bruce may have worked on some demos. You know what happens, when Paul and Gene go into the studio in i A., a lot of times 'cause I live back East, they might use Bruce or Eric (Singer) or whoever is around. For my demos I used Anton Fig and I used Karl Cochran. If I would have done that in a studio in Manhattan people would probably have said, 'so Anton's playing on the album?'When you do twenty four track demos people think thafs gotta be part of the album. We re-cut when we went into One On One studios.

Tell us about the 3-D stage show planned for the new tour.

I'm really excited about the 3-D effects. We flew to Dallas last week and we did a video for "Psycho Circus." We were doing it behind a blue screen, a chroma key for the 3D video. There was one part at the end of the solo where I shoot a rocket into the lens of the camera. I'm a pretty good shot and they wanted me,to get it right into the lens which is about three inches in diameter and I'm standing like twenty five feet away. I'm hitting it two feet off to the left, two feet off to the right, two feet below. And they're going, "Ace, you've gotta get it right into the lens" I'm going, "Jesus Christ, I've got one rocket left." Everybody's sitting there tense, you could feel the tension in the room. I go, "I'm gonna nail it." I hit the button and the rocket went right into the lens and whited out the whole picture (laughs). I think I might have burnt out the filament (laughs). Anyhow, I'm really impressed by the 3-D effects. I'm working with the programmers right now because I did the morph for the last tour. Theyre gonna give me the software they use, I'm gonna get an SGI machine, silicone graphic, which is the machines they use in films like Titantic and Terminator 2. They're the fastest machines on the planet. I'm sure the 3-D will be used in all our solos and during the course of the show, on the screens with certain moves that we do... For instance in the beginning of "Detroit Rock City' where the three of us have our guitar necks together, if we stick our necks out, they're gonna look like they're going into your face, even if you're sitting three hundred rows back. and you got the polarized glasses on. It's gonna have depth. Then only thing I'm worried about is are people going to be looking at the screen more than us? (laughs). I mean I found myself doing that at the Stones concert at Giants Stadium. I was watching the screen more than the band sometimes. But see, we're so much more visual than the Stones are that I think people will be watching both, They'll be something for everybody to watch. There'll be screens in front of the PA. that we'll be able to project on. The circus acts that will be opening the show sound cool as shit. It sounds like a fucking "Psycho Circus" to me.

How do you like your Destroyer costume?

That's actually my favorite costume. Believe it or not, when they brought over the original costume to see how they had to change it, I fit into it. (laughing) I think I was the only one who fit into my old costume. I think when I tried it on I was about a hundred seventy pounds. Since I tried that on; I put on ten pounds but I'm gonna drop it in the next month which is no big deal for me. I can drop ten pounds in two weeks if I have to. I'd rather drop it slowly so it's not a shock to my system.

Alive! is cited by many as the quintessential Kiss album. What live albums by other acts do you treasure?

I like Humble Pie Live At The Fillmore because I was there. I hung out with Steve Marriott at a loft party. He was playing acoustic guitar and singing. He sounded like he had an amp in his throat, he was great. So it's either Humble Pie or AC/DC, the live one with "Highway To Hell" on it. The live version of that kills me. That's my favorite AC/DC album, studio album and the live version is just as hip. But Live At The Fillmore, I was there and it's one of my favorite records.

Ace, on the song "She, " was that cop from The Doors on the solo for "Five To One" song an unconscious lift?

Ah, fifty, fifty. if you listen to the lead guitarist from Pearl Jam there's a couple of solos that sound similar to me. It's funny, I took my daughter and two of her friends to see Pearl Jam when they played at The Felt Forum. After the show I went backstage and the guitar player came running out asking me for my autograph. I think at that point my daughter started realizing that maybe I was a big superstar at one point in my life (laughs).When she camt to Tiger Stadium she saw the real deal happen.

At a show on the band's reunion tour in Columbus, Ohio, Peter was unable to perform because of physical problems. He was replaced by his drum tech Ed Kanon who wore Peter's costume and makeup. In retrospect, was it a mistake not to 'have canceled the show that night?

Peter had carpal tunnel syndrome and his thumb was going out of joint. His thumb was becoming dislocated and he was in tremendous pain. He felt so bad. I'll never forget the phone call. He goes, "Ace, I just can't do it." I said, "Well, what should we do?" Paul and Gene said, "well his drum roadie knows all the songs.' And we had a sold out house screaming for our names. I said to him, "Peter, if you want us to call the show off, I won't play." And Peter said, "No, our fans deserve a show, they paid good money and we won't be able to make this up because our schedule is so tight, let Eddie play the show." He was a man about it. It was either Eddie playing the show with us or there wouldn't have been a shot. There were six thousand kids dying to see a kiss show. It wasn't the same as it would have been with Peter but at least we got through it. But it was funny, Eddie's a much younger guy than Peter but halfway though the show he started to fade (laughs). And Peter's ten, twenty years his senior. Peter's really in good shape these days.

The new 24" Kiss collectible dolls sound like they're going' to be incredible.

I saw them, they're amazing. Every fucking joint works. It means any kid who has a computer, he can do Ray Harryhausen type photography and bring us to life, if he has the patience to do it. I'm serious, every joint works. You can really make us come to life if you do frame by frame photography.

There's an almost unprecedented amount of Kiss memorabilia coming out in 1998, akin to the late Seventies. How do you safeguard from the merchandising taking more importance over the music?

(laughs) I can't keep up with it. I don't have a problem with it. Obviously there's a demand for it otherwise it wouldn't be flying out the door so quick.

Were there any celebrities that you met who surprised you by being big Kissfans?

Most of the celebs I meet are fans (laughs), especially the younger ones. The biggest surprise that I had was when I heard Garth Brooks was a big Kiss fan because he's a country singer. I mean that flipped me out. But in retrospect, we were huge in the South and we still are. It's obvious that Garth's a fan when you go see his show because he uses theatrics. To me that's a big compliment.

Neil Bogart, the head of Casablanca Records is a misunderstoodfigure, celebrated iiiorefor his mastery of hype than anything else. How do you remember him?

I have fond memories of Neil. Neil always really respected me and I have a lot of respect for Neil, God rest his soul. I thought he was a genius. I thought he was an innovator in the music business. He was not afraid to take chances, He rolled the dice with us. A lot of other companies didn't want to touch us. We made him a multimillionaire but unfortunately God decided to take him at an early age. But I had the utmost respect for him.

Ace, why didn't you write more for the Destroyer album?

Back then when I first joined Kiss I really didn't consider myself a songwriter per se, even though I had written some songs. Paul and Gene, prior to joining Kiss had Wicked Lester and they had done most of the writing on that stuff. it took a couple of albums for me to really blossom as a writer. As the years progressed it was real obvious that I was growing as a writer and by the time I did my solo album, I really had gotten much better and felt more sure of myself.

The fans love (Music From). The Elder, there was even an Elder play at a high school. How do you look back on the record today?

I don't think The Elder was a bad record, I just don't think it sounded like a Kiss record. it wasn't bad but to me it wasn't what Kiss represents in my mind and that's why I found it offensive. The last time I played The Elder I was driving up to Milbrook Studios, cause I was producing a group about four years ago. I was listening to it and I got a speeding ticket (laughs). (Laughing) So I took the tape out and threw it out the window and said "this is a bad luck album for me all the way around!"

Not much is known about your band Millemo, a group who recorded tracks for an RCA Records project.

It was a guy and girl lead singer. I think his name was Tom Lewis, the guy was some fag, man. He was like a fag gigolo. We had a keyboard player, another guitarist, me, a bass player named Barry Dempsey, and a drummer, his name was Dave. We had a producer and we were gonna get a deal with RCA and we cut some tracks. We played The Village Gate a couple of times, we played The Fillmore East before it closed. I can't find the tape (laughs). It's worth thousands. I know it's somewhere. It's either in my storage locker or my attic or in my basement or in my garage or in my father-in-laws garage or basement. The closest way I could describe the group is an East Coast Jefferson Airplane. I did very little writing with them. They had most of the songs already written. I was the last one to join the group. So we were working on a deal and I can't remember what happened.

Was that your only prior studio experience before Kiss?

I can't remember (laughs). Gene was playing a song for me off Rock & Roll Over and I said, "Did I play that solo?" And he goes, "Of course you did." It happened a couple of weeks ago at rehearsals. We had the whole catalogue and we were going through every album saying what could we play that the fans haven't heard that would go over good. it must have been one of those black out solos (laughs).

Ace, of all your early bands, who were the best out of the lot Cathedral, King Kong, Honey & The Magic People?

King Kong was cool. We were very heavy but we weren't disciplined (laughs). The best club band was probably Honey & The Magic People. We did stuff by Hendrix, Who, Cream, Led Zeppelin, CCR. We'd do a couple of hit singles that were happening at the time. We also did "All Right Now" by Free. This band was around in '69, '70, '71.

How active are you on-line?

I don't go on-line very often. I don't have time. And when I do have time to screw around with the computer I'm usually screwing around with my animation or my art work. People who go on line don't have anything better to do with their time, not that that's bad. But I can't spend two or three hours screwing around on the intemet when I can be either working on guitar solos or working on animation for the new show or designing this that or the other thing.

Since my last interviews I wanted to catch up and have the band rate some of the newer Kiss releases, 1-4 stars starting with Unplugged?

I didn't have that much to do with it. I only worked on a few songs. it was pretty cool. I had fun playing "Beth" acoustically Eric (Singer) and me have become very close friends. Eric lives out in L.A. For some reason we went out a couple of times to clubs and just hit it off I don't like to rate my own work because I never think I'm playing well enough. All I can tell you is my favorite Kiss song is "Deuce." My least favorite is "I Was Made For Loving You" (laughs).

Okay, how about You Wanted The Best, You GotTheBest!!?

It's a good record.

It sounds like you re-recorded the lead vocals on several of the songs from that album like "Room Service" and "Take Me." Was there any re-recording of the vocals on the record?

Oh wait, now I remember, I did go into the studio and sang on something, I can't remember what? (laughs). You've gotta remember this was happening when we were getting ready for the reunion tour and I was so overloaded and overwhelmed with everything, the pressures of trying to live up to what we looked like and how we performed in our twenties. That was the biggest thing on my mind at that point in my life. Now that we've got two hundred shows under our belt, I have a lot more confidence. I think this new album is going to be huge for us, I think this tour's going to be great. Once the kids see the 3-D effects they're gonna flip. Because I flipped out and things don't flip me out too easily!

Is this Kiss' farewell tour?

I think this can go on for as long as all four of us can look at each other and say we're still having fun. And if the kids are still saying we want another tour and we're all enjoying ourselves. I think we're gonna stop when we're not having fun with it anymore. So at the end of this tour we may say "hey, it's time to let some of the younger guys take over" or we might do one more. That's one thing I love about this business, you really never know what's going to happen. It's a roller coaster ride. For the life of me I can't understand how people who work for corporations do these nine to five jobs, get up at the same time every day, hop on the train, have a couple Martinis,go down to work, come back and they know at age sixty five they're, gonna get a gold watch. They're gonna retire and drop dead in ten years (laughs). You got your whole life planned out for you. I don't know what's gonna happen six months or a year from now. I don't know if three years from now I'm gonna have a new solo band and come out with a Top Ten hit again. So that's what makes life exciting for me. I never know whaes going to happen one day to the next. All .1 can tell you is I'm really happy with what's going on now. I think this tour is gonna be bigger than the last one. Everybody's in a good frame of mind, there's not a lot of negativity going around. There's a lot of positive energy.